Watching the Watchers with Robert Gruler Esq.

Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Day 13: Closing Arguments and Jury Instructions

December 20, 2021 Robert Gruler Esq.
Watching the Watchers with Robert Gruler Esq.
Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Day 13: Closing Arguments and Jury Instructions
Show Notes Transcript

Closing arguments are finished in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial and the jury is now deliberating. Let’s talk about it, including:

🔹 Mindmap:
🔹 Judge Alison Nathan heals final housekeeping arguments from both sides prior to closing arguments.
🔹 Prosecutor Alison Moe delivers closing arguments for the government, calling Ghislaine Maxwell a “sophisticated predator.”
🔹 Moe describes the scene at Epstein’s properties and details Maxwell’s involvement.
🔹 Government prosecutors release a video exhibit to the public and we review a few clips from the FBI Palm Beach raid.
🔹 Moe discusses a phone message in evidence that relates to Carolyn’s testimony.
🔹 Defense attorney Laura Menninger delivers closing arguments for Ghislaine Maxwel..
🔹 Menninger argues that this case is about Epstein, not about Maxwell.
🔹 Prosecutor Maruene Comey (daughter of James Comey) delivers the rebuttal closing argument for the government.
🔹 Brief review of the jury instructions that includes the specifics about the conspiracy allegations.
🔹 Your comments and questions!



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Speaker 1:

Hello, my friends. And welcome back to yet. Another episode of watching the Watchers live. My name is Robert grr . I'm a criminal defense attorney here at the R and R law group in the always beautiful and sunny Scottsdale Arizona. And today closing arguments Golin Maxwell trial day 13. This is it. Jurors have the case now. And so we're gonna go through the closing R of course , this is the closing. This is kind of the big Caho . This is where everything comes down to the final connecting of the dots. Both sides are going to really try to make everything fit, everything that we've been talking about over the very short trial that this was, they're gonna try to make it all fit. And so both sides are coming out with the best that they've got. We're going to check in and , uh , get some, our bearing straight with judge Allison . Nathan, we have a little bit of housekeeping stuff to go through. We'll talk about that briefly. And then we'll just get right into closing arguments. Allison Moe is the prosecutor who is representing the government and she is now going to be delivering the closing arguments and she's calling Maxwell a sophisticated predator. And so we're gonna go through this because we've been fleshing this out. What has the theme been that the government has been saying she is not a victim. She's a villain. She's been somebody who has been in cahoots with Jeffrey Epstein. She was just as bad as he was. In fact, there was no victimhood here for Maxwell. And so you're gonna see a lot of that theme be played out by prosecutor, Allison Mo. And so we'll break that down. And then we have some interesting new exhibits that came out. One is a hour long video and hour long video that is over on YouTube inner city , press uploaded this shout out to inner city , press doing an outstanding job today in particular uploaded a bunch of stuff over to YouTube. And so it's actually a video of the Epstein Palm beach raid. And so I have a couple clips of that. It sounds like Allison Moe was presenting some of this to the jurors today. And so we'll take a look at that. I've also been able to splice in some of the different exhibits that I think they were referring to because we've seen a lot of them. They didn't get to see 'em . It sounds like when they were doing closing arguments today, but I was able to go back our prior slides and I think I have the exhibits that they were referencing. And so we'll be able to make it a little bit more lively, a little bit more colorful than , uh , than maybe otherwise we would be able to do because it's federal court. And then we're going to check in with the rest of the people who did closing arguments. So of course, as we know, the prosecution goes, first, we're gonna hear from Allison Moe. Then the defense goes today. We heard from Laura Menger , Laura Menger has been very active in this case. She, of course is female. Somebody who did a lot of the cross examination of many of the victims in this case. And so she came out and delivered closing arguments, and then because the government, you know, gets, gets everything that they want. They get a second attempt at a close it's called a reclose . And so the , they get a opportunity to come back and make their final pitch. And so we'll talk about that, Alice. So that was Maureen Comey , prosecutor, Maureen Comey , who came out and delivered those rebuttal clothes , the rebuttal clothes for the prosecution. And so that means we've got a lot to get to. If you wanna be a part of the show, the place to do that is [email protected] There's a form there looks just like this. If you're a member, you get access to that link and you can go ahead and submit your question. We'll do our very best to get to them. We also have clips of the show that are over at the clips channel, Robert grr , Esq clips. If you're looking for little individualized segments that you can share with family and friends, that's the place to do it. Okay. Golin Maxwell trial day 13. We know this is it. We've got closing arguments right ahead of us. And then it's off to the jury. It's off for deliberation and they've got a lot to deliberate upon. They've got 83 pages of jury instructions to get to, but before we dive into closing arguments, inner city press reporting. And once again, big, huge shoutouts to inner city press did an outstanding job this entire entire trial. And , uh, today , uh, what was just on top of it? So he is reporting that early this morning, judge Nathan was asking about these exhibits. Remember, this is America, we're supposed to have some transparency and accountability. We're supposed to be able to sort of see what goes on in these proceedings. And a lot of this case has been completely under seal . Everything has been redacted, not been able to see much of anything. And so inner city press and many others have been trying to sort of beat the drum to get to this material. And so judge Nathan was specifically inquiring about this from the attorneys today says, you know, those exhibits, those, those things that have been withheld throughout the trial, I'm , I'm , I'm gonna put those on the public docket. And there were , there were several orders that came out from the court docket. And so there there's supposed to be a bunch of exhibits that are being in public. What inner city press is telling us though, that as of this morning, they weren't public. But the point here is that they should be becoming public at some point in time. And again, this is only the redacted exhibit. So this is, we're not gonna be seeing anything that was unredacted. We're talking about the redacted exhibits that are going to be published according to the judge, she a couple orders demanding that they are , uh , basically notified about what is going out to be public soon. And that was scheduled for today. So we're gonna see some additional exhibits continue to drip out. Judge Nathan says , uh, that they're going to be scheduling the closing arguments for the day. The government of course is going to go first. The defense were gonna have a rebuttal. Then they probably are gonna begin deliberations today. And in fact they did. So judge Nathan says anything else. Then they turn the box. That is the speaker's box. So the public can't see inner city press is noting that can't really see much of anything. They're withholding all slides and all demonstratives and all defensive exhibit. So as we go through these closings, the continued veil of secrecy reigns down continuously never stops. So we're not gonna see much here, but we're gonna try to piece together what we can, the best we can. So we see here, the government prosecutors, we know this team, Damien Williams, the head us attorney not been involved really in this case, you see it's the four prosecutors down below today for closing arguments. We hear from Allison , Moe, Allison Moe, we know has used some pretty aggressive language throughout this trial, sort of coming out. And she has some of those mic drop moments that we have talked about. And so she came out and she did the initial round of closing arguments. And then we get the rebuttal close . And that is from Maureen Comey . Maureen Comey sends , uh , the rebuttal close and we we're gonna check in with her a little bit as well. I also see Dr. MB is in the house, Dr. MB saying Merry Christmas to R and R law group with a very generous donation. Thank you, Dr . MB , very generous of you. Okay. And , and we'll get back to that. We'll shout you out there again, but I love you, Dr. MB , Merry Christmas to you. Inner city press continues. Reporting. Jury is now in. And so this is when closing arguments are going to start. He's noticing that Maxwell is in a beige sweater today at a defense table with Bobby Bernheim front row Glenn's brother, Kevin Maxwell and Leah . Sapian another attorney who was there. Judge Nathan tells the jurors got a lot to get to. We're gonna break early for lunch. Then we'll come back and hear from miss Menninger. Then we're gonna take another break. Then you're gonna hear from the government sound good. Ladies and gentlemen, we're ready to proceed. Judge Nathan says, miss Moe, the flow is yours. Allison Moe government prosecutor takes the stand, walks up in front of the jurors. And she starts with a very crisp opening statement. Maxwell was dangerous. She targeted a girl whose father had just died about Jane Jane of course was the first victim that we heard from who told us that story. They were very poor, very destitute. She fell into the lap of Jeffrey Epstein and you take it from there. Mo continues says Maxwell ran the same playbook and she did it again. And again. She groomed these girls. She cause deep and lasting harm to young girls. And now it's time to hold her accountable. Meanwhile, Clinton , Maxwell's over there. Just flipping through papers. Sounds like she's flipping through her hair. Nonchalant as prosecutor Mo is going through the litany here she continues. She says, ladies and gentlemen, you've heard from law enforcement officers. You've seen documents. We've gone through phone messages. You've seen a little black book. You've seen the victim's name on it. You heard Juan Alessi say that he had to put those black books right by the bedside table. He had to follow the house manual and they called him John. They couldn't even call him Juan . You heard all of that. And now after you've seen all of the evidence, this is our summation. This is our opportunity to explain how all this evidence fits together. And after you see the connections, you're going to see that Maxwell is guilty. And ladies and gentlemen today, I'm gonna give you eight reasons why she's guilty. Let's go through them. First. She says Maxwell and Epstein were partners. They were in a romantic relationship. And Ms. Maxwell even wrote this doc . Now the public, of course, doesn't see this document, but we have heard some of these sentences previously Mo is reading from a slide of courses on the screen. And apparently we're gonna see these slides at some point, probably highly redacted, but we should see them says, quote . Apparently this is from Ms . Maxwell who wrote this as quote , a couple for 11 years, great partners, rarely apart, best of friends, Moe continues to read from this memorandum and ask the jurors. Does that sound like a personal assistant to you? A couple for 11 years. Great partners. Never apart . No. It sounds like a lover. Moe says when you're with someone for 11 years, you know what they like and Epstein liked young girls. Moe says that Epstein couldn't have done this alone. It would be nuts. A single middle-aged man, inviting a girl to a ranch in New Mexico saying, Hey, why don't you fly out to my island in little St . James, Hey, why don't you come to my mansion in New York? Yeah, that doesn't work. People who ask that raise red flags that would set off alarm bells. And so Mo says, Epstein couldn't have even done any of this. Without Maxwell. Maxwell was key. You saw photos of how close they were and let's take a look at those. And so here, of course, they're not showing these photos to the press or to the media, but we did on this channel. Look through several different photos. Remember this one. And remember the narrative that we talked a lot about here, victim or villain defense saying he's a victim. Jeffrey Epstein was the mastermind. Golin was just following along and now because Epstein is now dead. Allegedly. They have nobody else to go after except her. So she's being victimized. She's being manipulated. But Jeffrey Epstein was the real bad guy. Prosecutors say different. That's not true at all. Look at these two. They were little love birds . They're flying around. They're about to jump out of an airplane together. They're on a helicopter going to some far away land here's Maxwell in a little mansion, just enamored as can be just falling all over herself. Nudging doing the little cheek kisses. Isn't that cute. Here. They are with their little, you know, little puppy out there, maybe shooting, taking some photographs who knows what they're doing, but they're love birds . Here's the two of them smiling deeply at each other, looking into each other's eyes, bouncing around wherever they are. And so Moe continues. This narrative walks through the photos. These are all in the slides, partners, partners, ying and yang, two peas into pod. They were inseparable. Even gal Maxwell wrote it down. And as continuing through the photos, we see some of the spec photos come out says, now ladies and gentlemen, you are looking at Maxwell and Epstein. They're swimming naked in this pool. And here she is massaging Epstein's feet with her breasts, which I don't know. What's illegal about that Mo says, look at this exhibit. And this exhibit is Maxwell with lotions, not shown to the press here or one lessee's testimony about washing off the rockets, not the rockets. The torpedoes. Remember the torpedoes , uh , Juanes has to had to wash the torpedoes off and return 'em to Maxwell's bathroom. Uh , all right . So this continues prosecutor, Allison Moe says, all right , ladies and gentlemen, you have seen these reasons thus far, but now let's turn our attention to Annie. Annie, you can see down here in the bottom, right? Was the only victim who actually identified herself. Annie farmer. She testified last and came out and Mo says, we heard her story. Here's what we know about her. She was hoping to go to a good college, Kate. Yes , she was alone a lot. She was dazzled by this impressive man who made her feel special. Jane was abused by family members. Jane, you can see down here. She was the first victim that we heard from. We heard that her father was an alcoholic. And so the story goes, according to Moe, Maxwell was hanging out with these girls alone. We heard from Annie. Annie said that when she got to in Mexico, she found herself along with Maxwell and Epstein says, this is obvious. They were isolating these girls for a reason. Palm beach was the center hub. They take 'em out to New Mexico, up to New York, out to little St . James around the hub, isolating them from their families. We heard three steps of grooming. The five steps of grooming Mo says, even for Annie, it started very innocently. Start with Maxwell telling her to rub Epstein's feet for Jane. It was very simple. Maxwell was out topless by the pool. They were just simply talking about boys boyfriends. They were escalating. And then things went from one to another Maxwell ends up. We find out, touched three of the fours. Breasts prosecutor continues, says, Jane told you, you heard from Jane, the first victim who took the stand. You can see her here . Jane said , Maxwell did it to Annie too. Annie wanted to get off the massage table. These two stories corroborate each other Maxwell touched these girls. It's not an accident. It happened again. And again and again, you heard it from Jane. You heard it from Annie Mo continue says, Jane, didn't be come Epstein's so-called goddaughter by accident. Maxwell is guilty. That's how she became his God daughter. Here's what they did to Jane. This is Jane and they show a photo up on the screen, but we don't get to see it most , as we learned all about Jane, you heard about years of abuse that she suffered. We talked a lot about different documents from Jane. In fact, here's Jane's application to the interlock in school, which we talked about. Her name of course is gonna be redacted. So we didn't get to see those. There are flight logs. Again, her name is on there. We know that it's enough anonymized, but the jurors know what the actual name is. And they can see it on there on those redacted flight logs. And they can see her actual name on the school documents. And so they're showing it to them. Mo says that she saw Maxwell topless by the pool. And you know that because now you've seen Maxwell topless by the pool. Jane told you how Epstein walked her to the pool and then started rubbing on her. All of those documents got in. And we heard that story that Epstein pulled Jane out from the pool, took her back and we know the story flight logs come in. Commercial flight records, private jet records. It sounds like all of those are now in front of the jurors prosecutor Mo says there weren't any scholarship boys. Isn't that interesting. All of these girls who got a bunch of money, Jane and, and Carolyn , all this interest from Epstein, there weren't any boys who got those scholarships. Wonder why that is, huh? Says there were no selection criteria from Epstein, from Maxwell, from any of these people beyond a pretty young and vulnerable girl. Jane was 14 and 15 and 16 and he was using torpedoes 14, 15, 16 torpedoes. Okay. Do you see what she's doing? Here we go on. She says, here's the massage room in New York. And we don't get to see what photos that she was talking about are referencing, but we're pretty sure it's this one government exhibit 9, 1 7 are . And remember the last time we looked through these, a lot of these photos are redacted and not on the walls. Now all of these, we are not going to be able to see the next question was, of course, what of these photographs are the jurors gonna be able to see if any, they may see some of these photos or not. We don't really know, but when you go around the rest of the massage room, when you take a look at the lotions and you take a look at the redactions on the wall, you can see that those photographs are probably something that's pretty provocative. Here's government exhibit 9, 28 R you can see a little bit of this photo, peeking out. Wonder what that is. I wonder what that is there. Interesting. Huh? Very, very curious. Now, as I mentioned, that was in the New York residence. So there was also a new video that came out today about the Palm beach residence . And so we're gonna take a quick detour and take a look at that. I also believe that this was played today during parts of the closing argument, but we're just watching it a little bit out of order. I believe so. Uh, so here is what we saw I believe in court today. But again, we don't know cuz it's federal court. They don't tell us anything. This is the Palm beach raid from the FBI sometime ago. So they're just walking around. Now, this is some, you kinda look at this room, you think maybe it's a guest room, but then you take a look at the bathroom and it kind of looks like there's a lot of activity going on in there. So, You know, you've got a whole, well, I think we just, yeah, there you go. So, you know, like somebody might actually be using this room, don't know who this is, but looks a little bit more used than , uh , maybe a guest room. Maybe not, I don't know . Not sure what that's all about, but you know, again, this is back in the nineties and so you have these huge TVs. It sort of feels like a guest room more to me than anything thing. This one I think may be actually the master room. And so , uh , let's watch this one. This room's a little bit bigger in Palm beach and we actually saw several photographs from this room, cuz we made note of those interesting pillows that have those interesting colors on them. Right. Sort of, sort of look like kind of kidsy a little bit. Now, if you look in on these side tables, they don't look particularly nice. You know, they look like they're kind of just set up there and I don't see a black book anywhere, no black book. Now when you turn around here, this is again in Palm beach, this is not New York. Then we start to see this room that we also saw some photographs of and this looks like it might be, you know, the master, this might be, you know, a him and hers type of a situation. I , and then watch what you see here. When you get to this bathroom to the shower, look at all these lotions. What is all that look at? All that stuff? Do people use all that stuff? That's a lot good Lord. All right . And so they just keep going around his house and there's not nothing really, you know, too spicy here on any of these. We can see that. I think this one is when they're outside now. And so right . That's outside the, A little gym activity going on. Hey, you know, so nothing too interesting, just kind of some officers, you know, Ruming around through his house. Anything that of course is good and juicy. They're gonna clip that right out. But I was curious about that shower. I mean, there's like 35 different tubes. What are all those tubes for? I don't, you need like, like champ , like hair and body, like that's it right. Face maybe three things. Why do you need 35 things for, I don't know , very complicated business, but the internet was going through here and they , um, they were able to take some screen grabs of what was going on. So this officer had his firearm out at the ready , when he was going through the Epstein residence. We also have , uh , of course a picture of a messy bed. Everybody likes to look at messy beds. Of course. And then folks, we have a highly censored photograph coming up, but this is a , uh , vomit warning. He heavily censored photograph, but vomit warning just for the mental imagery that this is going to , um , impose. We have a photograph exhibit 2 94 of the twin torpedoes. Oh , uh , the twin torpedoes. Okay. So we've got the vomit sensor on there, so don't worry too badly about it. But if you take a look at it more closely, then you're going to see the twin torpedoes. Uh, there's two of them and they're actually remote controlled. So you'll notice down here in the bottom right of the box, bottom left, I'm sorry of the box that uh, is actually remote controlled, which makes it, I think prop , I mean, you know, <laugh> , I don't have any particular preference of remotes or no remotes, but I mean, if you're gonna have a , you know, if you're gonna have a , a , you know, <laugh> oh no. All right . So let's carry on. Let's get back to serious business. This is a serious show. Allison Moe government prosecutor continues on. Now that we've taken that little bit of a detour. Allison Moe says ladies and gentlemen, you've seen all of that. Let's go back to Jane. Jane told Matt, she had a godfather. Jane of course was the first victim that we heard from. We also heard from her boyfriend, Matt, Matt came out and testified and said she had to do things that she didn't want to do. Says there was also a woman who made her feel comfortable. Matt told you, ladies and gentlemen that there was a woman in the house who made her feel comfort. You know it, I know it. That woman was go Maxwell Mo says you heard expert testimony. Dr. Rocko came in here, you can see Dr. Rocko . I took her photograph here and she testified as an expert witness. She told you all about grooming. We went through the five stages of grooming. She said, victims are less likely to tell the closer they are to the perpetrator. And guess what? It's true. Maxwell was like a big sister to Jane. You heard from Jane, you look heard how much she looked up to her, how much she respected her. And then she was abused by her. That's why she didn't speak up. And Dr. Rocko told you, so Moe continues says Jane also named five women who participated in those group activities. You remember them. And we talked about them here at length, Emmy Kelly, Ava , Sophie, and Michelle , all participated in group is Jane was there and she named them. Now Mo is coming out and she's trying to rebut the defense's argument. If you recall, the defense came out and they brought up somebody named Ava to the stand and they said, Hey, Ava , do you ever participate in these group activities? And Ava said, no, I did not. And so the defense brought up Michelle and they said, oh, how about you, Michelle? You were there on the Epstein properties. Did you participate in these group activities? And Michelle said, absolutely not. Did not. But Mo says, even though Jane identified people named Ava and Michelle, she never gave you their last name. <affirmative> there were many AVAs in the black book. There were many, Michelle's three of 'em in fact, in the black book. So just because they went out and found one Ava and dragged her into court doesn't mean it's the Ava that Jane was referencing. Moe calls, this entire thing, a spectacle and a side . The prosecutor continues . She says, ladies and gentlemen, you heard Annie tell you how, when Epstein touched her, when they were at the movie theater in New Mexico, as soon as Maria, her sister looked over, he stopped. Annie flew to New Mexico. He thought it was about a scholarship. Her mother told her and he thought they all thought it was about a scholarship. And when they were out there, that's when Maxwell really started ratcheting things up. We know the stages of grooming. You start small and you work your way up. Maxwell did the same thing. Again, the same thing that she did with Jane, she wanted to show Annie now how to rub Epstein's feet. You saw the photo of Maxwell massaging his feet with her breasts. Okay ? This was not part of a mentoring program. SEMO. This is not Maxwell's lovely school of massage. Okay ? She's massaging his feet with her breast. This is not appropriate. This is not a massage. Mo says that in this process, Maxwell was trying to normalize this. Why? Because she was a predator. She insist on giving Annie a massage and she touched her. And none of that was therapeutic. This is not on a list of spot treatments anywhere in the world. I don't care if you go to the four seasons or the Ritz Carlton not acceptable. Prosecutor continues and said, you heard from FBI agent Mo again , Mulligan remembered that Annie told him that Maxwell had bought a pair of cowboy boots. And during that buying of the boots that he touched her breasts. And then in 2006, Annie told the FBI the same thing. And now let's change gears says Mo, we're gonna talk a about Carolyn . Now you remember Carolyn . Carolyn was the third victim who came out and testified, had a little bit of drug history, a little bit of abuse history Mo says that Carolyn was introduced by Virginia Roberts. Remember Virginia Roberts JRE , the woman who was in that photograph with prince Andrew. Yeah. Virginia Roberts, also making allegations against the princes and Erit and civil suits says Roberts was the same girl that Juan Alessi remembered. Juan Alessi . Of course Epstein's housekeeper. He said that at me , Lago Maxwell told him to pull over and went to talk to her. Lesi says, he's just driving down the road. Maxwell says, oh, there's an easy victim. Pull over. She hops out and goes to talk to her. Carolyn continues and says that Virginia told her how to make money. Very easy says, Virginia, all you have to do is go give massages to wealthy men . And then Virginia and Epstein started going at other right in front of Carolyn . This is the massage room where it all happened. And boom prosecutor Mo throws it up on the screen. And here is the master bedroom. You see of a Dr . A drawing of a young girl pearling down her underwear. Remember that photograph, this line was highly debated about pre in pre-trial proceedings. And actually in fact, during the trial, there was a photograph outside the master bedroom with a very provocative photo. The defense wanted to keep that photo out because of what it implies. Here it is. They're getting that in front of the jury. It sounds like Mo says there's a drawing of a young girl pulling down a underwear right outside the master bedroom. And what does that imply easy? It says that Maxwell understood what was happening here. This was the beginning of all of this abuse. Multiple people would be involved. Even Sarah ke would call Carolyn Maxwell was orchestrating the whole thing. And if you go back through the record, and if you take a look at all the exhibits that we submitted, you're going to see very clearly even phone messages, corroborate Carolyn's testimony. What she said is accurate and true because we have contemporaneous documents. From that time. You can see here, ladies and gentlemen, that we were taking messages on these message logs. There was a red for Mr . Epstein Tuesday at 8:00 AM, please call. And then we get the name. This is when the message came in. It was for somebody for Jennifer. Then we have the name, please call. So and so prosecutor Mo saying that corroborates everything. She came in here and she told you that she was taking messages and she was getting abused. Look, we got a message book. She took a message on it, Mo says. And speaking of these massages, you know, isn't it curious that all the Mauss are female. And by the way, who needs this many misuses ? Why do you need so many of them? Why can't you just have one or two? And by the, you know, if you're, if you're really looking for a good massage and you've got maybe some, you know, problems with your or back or something, and you need some real good therapy, maybe you get a medical massage or a therapeutic massage. Why are all these misuses females? Why don't you go and get somebody who's an actual therapist, you know, who's , uh , 400 pounds who can dig his elbow into your back and correct your misalignment. I don't know. Good question says Mo the notes say, mom and dad, and there's all these different, weird things happening in these notes for Mauss . None of this is legitimate. She says, in fact, here's a look at the employment record over at me , Lago of sky Roberts. That was Virginia's dad. And so she's going through different documents and different records. She says, here's an entry, Melissa. Carolyn's friend. It , when you're looking at the list of the Mauss , it doesn't say, you know the name of , uh , so and so who is highly credentialed? No, it says it's Melissa Carolyn's friend. This is a black book of illegal activity is what she's saying. And this proves that Maxwell is guilty in the front row of the gallery side note. We see that Kevin Maxwell and Isabel Maxwell's sisters are leaning over. They're looking at the exhibits that were handed to them, but of course the public couldn't see them. We changed gears and we talk about money a little bit. Mo says back in 2002 Epstein paid 5 million over to Maxwell. So when you add it all up, it's a total of 30.7 million. All the financial transactions go in was funneled over 30 million. Now ask yourself, ladies and gentlemen, what was Maxwell doing for Epstein? That was worth 31 million. Can you guess, was she organizing parties for him? Was she going horseback riding with him and flying around on helicopters with him? Was she giving him business advice? No, none of that is true. Epstein wanted to touch underage girls. Okay. That's what this was about. Maxwell knew what the money was four . She delivered the goods. She got paid for it. She is just as guilty as he is. This is not a victim situation. This is a willing accomplice. This is somebody who is participating in the underlying conspiracy through and through Mo says Virginia Roberts at that time was 17. She was lying on the jet with Epstein and Maxwell. Virginia brought Carolyn to the Palm beach house. And when Carolyn was 14, it was a pyramid scheme of abuse. You bring them in young, you age, 'em out. They bring in somebody else, young, they age out and your little cycle continues. Mo continues. Now the defense came out, ladies and gentlemen, and tried to tell you when Maxwell dated Ted, the guy from gateway computers or whatever he was from, I think it was gateway that she was no longer around Epstein. They came out and they tried to tell you, oh, Golin Maxwell moved on. She found somebody else. She swiped right. And found somebody who was gonna make her happy. It wasn't Epstein Mo says, Nope , false on that one. Not true at all. In fact, she was still lady of the house. Look at this manual, got a document that says exactly how this household is run. Take a look at it. Here's what it says. And when you look at Maxwell's list, when you look at these little books that she was keeping, it's very curious. There were no boys on Maxwell's lists. She slept in a bedroom with a bathroom of lotions and another bathroom where the torpedoes were stored and Epstein paid Maxwell, millions of dollars. She knew. Yeah, she knew she was complicit. In fact, she is guilty. And so the prosecutor now changes gears and says, let's talk the charges, ladies and gentlemen, this is gonna be very complicated. As we know a lot of charges, a lot of testimony here they go through this. And she says, let me also respond to what the defense has said in their opening, Bobby stern Heim. And Maxwell's counsel said that Maxwell is being blamed for something that Amanda did Epstein. They're trying to make this all about him, but this is not about him. Maxwell says Mo made her own choices. This case is about manipulating young girls. And the case is about money. Carolyn got a few hundred dollars X , well got 30 million. Do you see what happened here? If you've been following this channel for some time, you remember that Bobby stern Heim's opening theme, her opening statement. I just made a short about this on YouTube called trilogies was a trilogy with beautiful alliteration. On top of the trilogy. She said that this entire case was about money, memory and manipulation. That was Bobby's theme prosecutor Mo is coming out and flipping that around saying, yeah, this case is about manipulation. Easy. It's about manipulating young girls. Yeah. This case is about money. Easy. Carolyn got a few hundred dollars. Maxwell got 30 million. And this trial is also about memory. You heard about it. You heard about trauma. That's what they did. They caused the trauma. And so she says the defense is here. Arguing that Maxwell was oh , too busy to commit these crimes. But Maxwell had personal assistance. She had a woman to walk her dog. She ordered sand to be delivered to Epstein's private island. That's how much free time she had. So she had plenty of time to orchestrate a global scheme. Prosecutor continues and said, you know, they're defense expert. They brought out this woman, Elizabeth Loftus , that doctor who claimed that she was world renowned, who wrote all those books. She tried to come out here and convince people that they saw bugs bunny at Disney world. Hmm . Yeah. So, okay. That's fine. She can do that. She admits that she's an advocate for the defense. She also admits that she's made a lot of money. They tried to bring up that she represented Durst and Weinstein. It that didn't come out. And so Mo says, ladies and gentlemen, very, there is only one conclusion here that Maxwell is guilty and you should convict her. Use your common sense. You will reach the only verdict consistent with the evidence. And that is Maxwell is guilty. Boom. She closes the binder grabs. It turns around, walks around, there sits down high fives, all the other prosecutors. Yeah. And judge Allison , Nathan says, we're gonna take a lunch break. It's now 11:16 AM. And so we don't know how long that went, could have been an hour, probably maybe an hour and a half. Not sure how much time they had or whether she, he used the full length of it, but pretty good statement went through a number of different victims. And we saw her connect the different dots that was Allison Moe, delivering the closing argument for the prosecutors in the goin Maxwell trial. Now the government gets another crack at this, but let's check in to see what the defense had to say before we do. We have to, could look at what Bobby , uh , I'm sorry. Bobby stern Heim was making a motion. And the judge excused the jurors, of course, for their lunch break and said, nobody talk about this case. So Bobby stern Heim says, all right , judge, Hey, while we're taking a little bit of a break here, got a problem. The massage table that's coming in from California. That's not for interstate commerce. Okay? Just the fact that something crossed state lines, the fact that we have a massage table that was created in California, a move from California, whatever, not enough. So we want a limiting instruction, which means they want the judge to tell the juror something that's gonna correct. Their interpretation of the rules. Now inner city press is telling a us , the defense keeps arguing for a mistrial. Judge says, Nope , not gonna happen. I deny the motion for a mistrial. And it goes on Maxwell's defense team is now up. They have to deliver their closing arguments and they do. So we take a look at the defense team, but we only see one person delivering the losing arguments that is going to be Laura Menninger. We've talked a lot about this made note that Gill Maxwell has sort of an even split of a team in terms of gender. Typically, because you know, this is a crime involving women. It's kind of good to make sure that women are represented and that you are , uh , of course not. You know, having a group of men beat up on , uh, women. It's just not a good look. Generally speaking, I think most defense attorneys would agree on that point. And so we can see here that Laura Meger has been very active in this case, predominantly been, been brought forward to cross examine the victims. Whereas Jeff Paka and Christian ever brought out, generally speaking, Jeff Paka , I think did some questioning of one of the victims, but generally speaking, they have done of the technical cross examinations. Whereas Laura Meger has really been active in more of the , uh , the victim line of questioning. So Laura Meger is now out. Judge says, miss manager floor is yours. Closing arguments whenever you're ready. And so she comes out with another strong statement. I am not here to defend Jeffrey Epstein. He is not my client. The us presented evidence like a sensational tabloid, everything you saw here, private island, photos, New Mexico, New York airplanes, different people. We saw a lot of flamboyance. We saw a lot of activity. We heard a lot of things. Didn't we? Those were things that at Stein did. Those were Epstein's crimes, but Golin Maxwell is not Jeffrey Epstein. And now she continues on and she's gonna dig into some of the missing gaps. You saw a lot of photographs. You saw all the tabloid pictures that they showed you. You saw the pictures of bedroom of under the bed you saw in the drawers. You saw all the things that they had. Where are the other photographs? There were 37,000 of them. Where'd those go? Yeah. Who was in them? Yeah . You don't know that's because they didn't bring you those photos. You saw pictures. They were were folders. There were binders, but they brought you the most innocuous photos of a couple that was once together, they showed you the picture that they wanted you to see. They showed you a smattering of 25 photographs outta 37,000. They're not telling you the full story. Mening yours fired up. It says, this is straight up sensationalism, your honor. I mean, ladies and gentlemen, there's the lack of evidence. Let's start there. Jane hired Robert Glassman two weeks before she spoke to the FBI. In 2019 , the lawyers like boys in Scher , they helped set up the Epstein victims fund . So the victim Jane, who was so poorly abused, went and hired a lawyer right before she spoke to the FBI in 2019. And those same people that she hired, they helped set up the victim's fund. She says, let's turn to manipulation. We can go through the stories of each , each individual witness. If you'd like their stories have changed. Carolyn had a lawyer in 2008 back then there was a story about Epstein and Sarah Kell . She also sued. And in those lawsuits weird, she didn't mention max out . She sued everybody else. She sued the people who were really responsible for this, but you know, whose name was not in that lawsuit from 2008, weird, weird, weird Maxwell manager says we were asking questions about the boots. Where are the boots that you say that they bought you? Who's in your testimony? We had to ask those questions and manager says that the truth about those questions was manipulated over time. They've constantly twisted the stories they bought boots, but the boots were something nefarious. They're making out Maxwell to be Carella Deville . Or the devil wears Prada all rolled up into one . She said, you heard from the government's own witnesses. Let's talk about the pilot Viki . When he came out to testify, the government called him. Remember he took the stand and you heard him say that when he looked into Jane's eyes, the moment she stood on that plane, he thought that she was a fully grown, mature woman. He said it, the other pilot said it. They didn't see any bad activities going on those airplanes. And so them trying to say that her being there is an illegal act is conflating the issues. The pilot himself said, she looked older. The us said that she was sometimes in the room when it happened, but Jane said she wasn't sure. And, and Maxwell didn't entice Jane to travel. Anyways. Jane couldn't remember a lot during her testimony. If you recall listening to that here, manager continues says, Hey, Jane, you heard her say that she went to Epstein's house every week, but no one took the stand to say that she spent any time with Glenn <affirmative> . Who are these relatives? Annie's mom came. We heard from several people, all talking about this. Everybody came in and testified. No , never spoke to Maxwell. We heard about Epstein's house. Yeah, she was there all the time. Every other week. She was there, but Maxwell never came up. Larry, as we know, said Jane was fully mature. No pilot testified that he saw Carolyn or Kate or Annie engage in anything that was problematic. Nobody talked about none of his employees talked about a culture of silence. You just got the sound of silence. One got a two time burglar with an ax to talking about Alesi , which we're gonna get to manager said that the prosecutors came out and they told you that you'd learn. That was in the room. She was there. She was right there as all of this was going down. But if you ask Jane about that, whether was in the room, guess what? Jane can't remember. <affirmative> and there's no motive. Anyways. They say a happy educated woman in her thirties would end her career as a facilitator of abuse. Yeah. That makes sense. Maxwell. This very rich, very famous well todo socialite, somebody with a infamous father, somebody who has sort of, you know, bit in the tabloids for a long period of time. She's gonna give all of that up to jump into a life of abuse. Sure. Is there any evidence for that? She says, yeah. EV Epstein Epstein. He was the manipulator. He manipulated this whole thing. Do you know anything about anything about her lifestyle before Epstein or after she argues? She says maybe it was Jeffrey who needed and her connection and not the other way around manager moves for says, I wanna talk about Jane's age now let's pin this down. Very important issue. This is a case involving the allegations against minors. Let's talk about it. Jane said her father died at age 13. Tragic, absolutely tragic. I can't imagine. But then she's applying to go to an arts camp that costs four to thousand dollars per person. Huh? Uh , and if you go back through the records at the interlock in school of arts, they didn't even apply for financial aid when any of this happened. And then we move on, we get to see her travel records of Jane. This is the person who says that she was , uh , indigent. She had no money. Father was poor, broke, died, lost everything. Very, very sad. But if you look at her travel records, she's flying over to Italy. There's a flight I'll show. You shows Jane flew at the earliest age at 16. So for first flight is at age 16. What does that mean? Manager says very simply Jane got her dates wrong in a case that's all about dates and all about travel. This poor homeless Jane she's so poor alone. She's traveling all over the place. $4,000 for the interlock in school of arts flying over to Italy. She says, she's sang for Mike Wallace's 80th birthday, but she was 17 by then. So she just got these dates. Wrong. Has no idea what she's talking about. The government just said, we'll assume your first time to New York. Wasn't the lion king data. Remember this debate? James said, I went and saw the lion king on Broadway. Or I went and saw the lion king. Well, there's two different lion Kings. There's the Broadway play. And there's the movie. The movie came out in 94. The Broadway play came out in 97. If Jane saw the Mo saw the Broadway play, then she was three years old. Her . Then if she saw the movie with Epstein, that would make her three years older. That was a big issue. In this case, she said, I don't know to play the movie. I don't remember. Would you re would you forget something like that? Dr. Loftus said, no. She's a person who is an expert on memory world renowned in fact said, this is likely, this is remembering, okay . She's trying to remove a fact that wrecks a fake story. She wants the story of this abuse to be true. But if you go back, she was much older, three years older than what they're claiming, because she didn't see the lion king. She saw the Broadway play that makes her older and the other travel record support that manager says that Jane also talked about these group activities says you have a right to evidence. Okay. She gave names, multiple names, not one of these women called the police. They said , uh , Sophie was blonde and pretty in mid area to race car driver. She said, Ava joined in with Sophie. Okay . All these interesting names. She talks about Emmy and Michelle. They now say it could be any old Michelle. They're talking about these things happening. Doesn't the government have a burden to prove that if they're gonna bring Jane out here and say, yeah, there were these group activity is taking place with a number of different women, including Sophie, Ava, Michelle, Jane, Emmy shouldn't. They have to support that. Shouldn't they have to bring out an Emmy or a Michelle or an Ava to come out and say, yep , I participated in that. I can corroborate that. But we now, as the defense attorneys are bringing out the Michelle that we think it is, we're bringing out the Ava that we think it is. And we put them on the stand and guess what? They said, it wasn't us at all. We didn't participate this. We didn't do that at all. And so what the prosecution is saying now, well, there are many other AVAs out there. So Jane was talking about another Ava and the defense is saying, that's great. Go get her, go get the Ava, go find her. Then if you say there's a million different AVAs and you found an Ava in his book or a in , in the black book or whatever you saw, any of these names, go get 'em. You said it was Ava and Michelle, we went out, we found an Ava who actually dated Epstein for a long time. Brought her in here, sat her in front of the jury and say , did you do any of this stuff? And guess what? She said, no, none of it. Did you ever see anything that was wrong? No, none of it. So if you think it's maybe an Ava out there who is out there to corroborate Jane, go and get her because we went and found out an Ava that we found, and she seems to support our story. In fact, it seems like it's pretty, okay. PG 13 plays over there. You have to go get it and support your arguments, not us. So she says, they now say it could be any old. Michelle. Jane said it was the Michelle who hung out with Emmy. Michelle said, I'm a housewife. This is a pattern of Jane picking names out of people she met in Epstein's world. Jane is just throwing darts at a board. Of course, Ava and Michelle came up here and took the stand and said, we didn't participate in any of this stuff, cuz it never happened. That's why. And Jane is just now getting all, you know, know, you know, out of her mind making stories up. She's just picking names out. Oh Sophie and Emmy and Michelle. Okay. Well we called Michelle. She didn't do it. We called they have a , she didn't do it either. So who are these people? Any old Michelle, you need more evidence than that. She says. And Meger continues and said, she also told you that she met Donald Trump, but she has her timeframe all wrong. She's trying to insert goly into the story. After the fact, her lawyer Glassman told her it would help get money. We didn't get to call Glassman into trial. As a witness Menninger says when Jane was testifying <affirmative> she says she was in a movie called five monkeys, but there is no movie called five monkeys. There is a movie, however called 12 monkeys. And she claimed that holding hands was also abuse. Okay . So she went to New York, mostly to see her sister. And when she was there, Glen was nowhere around. So you have this woman who came and even remember what movie she was in five monkeys versus 12 monkeys with Bruce Willis also claimed that simply holding her hand was some sort of abuse. So you've got this woman who's like ultra fragile , who can't remember anything who went to New York to see her sister anyways and was not anywhere around mening changes. He goes, let's go talk about Annie. Now we through Annie's diaries. Did you ever see anything about Maxwell in those diaries? No. Cuz there isn't any mention in there. Epstein was not in the room when she got the massage. Annie told the compensation fund that the touching on her chest were Gros. And how much money did she get? Oh yeah. 1.5 million. That's all great. Neat story. But let me ask you this. What evidence is there that Kalin Maxwell knew about any of this? Hmm . Okay. Yeah. So Annie got abused, terrible story Epstein. Groped her breast. Got it. Awful. But Epstein wasn't in the room when she got the massage. Maxwell's not in Annie's diaries anywhere. She makes no complaints about this receives 1.5 million. So what does this have to do with Maxwell manager says, and she starts to undermine Annie's credibility and say, you know what? We'll be very curious to actually get those journals because we don't have those. If we had 'em we might be able to read 'em and see what's inside. If we were able to look in those journals, maybe we could piece this together. Maybe we could see that she just got it wrong by a year. Meaning she's 17. When she went there, when did she go to Thailand? The record say she was 18 through Dusseldorf. Her mother was there. So it's a off by a year. Meaning she's not a minor she's 17 records say she was 18. Look at the documents. Meger continues. Now let's talk about the boots. Annie talked about the boots. She said that she kept these boots for a real long time. It's kind of a weird thing for the victim of a heinous crime. Somebody who is abused in the worst of ways to keep the boots that her abuser bought for her kind of strange. So when I asked her, Annie, why'd you keep those boots. She said, it's pretty simple. While the government didn't ask for them in 2006. Well the government didn't ask for the them. Yeah. So she just threw them in the back of a closet somewhere. Well, ladies and gentlemen, as you recall, I admitted those boots into evidence as an exhibit. And so you're gonna get to see those when you're back there deliberating and I want you to take a look at those boots. Very closely. Take a look at the bottom of the boots, take a look at the heel, take a look at the soul . You're gonna see exactly how worn they are. This is a woman who had been wearing them for decades, cuz she liked those boots. Cuz she got 'em from somebody who was a friend of hers. Somebody she admired not an abuser. And she relished them. She kept on held onto them. Or maybe the argument is these were collateral old . These were evidence. This was her payday. She was gonna hang on to these things and collect a check. And she did. Didn't she 1.5 million and manager moves on and says, you know, some other interesting things about that little story about New Mexico. Where is that chef from the ranch? You know the chef that was out there. She said she didn't remember or doesn't know or doesn't think there's a sh he was there. I mean she was eating his food. Why doesn't she recall that? And where are her diaries? What you got was a photograph of the front and back of a diary and you got a few pages of it, but you did not get the rest of it. Did you? Why is that ladies and gentlemen? Why is the government only you one segment of this entire case you saw the front and the back of the diary and a smattering of pages. There's a lot more in this story. You didn't see anything about stuff that would exonerate Maxwell or Epstein. She continues says, Ms . Farmer told you that she met boy Scher . When she was going to be a witness in the Roberts case, remember Virginia Guffy Roberts was suing several people. Farmers said she went and talked to those lawyers and she was gonna be a witness for Guffy . Jeffrey manager. Now changes gears, turns over to Kate. Kate, we see down here, Kate filled out a very special visa, U visa application for exceptional people. She's a music therapist and manager says she is exceptional. She helps people. Now she came out. She testified today that she was using a pseudonym because of her child, but she used her own name in court after Epstein's death. Why is that? She sued Epstein. She went after Epstein previously. Soon as he , he died, used her own name there, but not here. Now she's saying it's because she's got a kid. Interesting story. Kate also claims that she met Maxwell in London when she was younger than 17. She said it was at that house with the red door. Look at it. And that's across the street from that nags head pub. Now remember NA head pub. That was the pub in the UK that allegedly Maxwell lived across the street. And they were gonna try to get that UK witness out here. But they were not able to do that because he was in the UK and the judge said you're outta time. But Kate was saying that they met in that mansion. That's where the massages first took place. And none of that has really been corrupted . So you can see what manager is doing here. Now. She's just going down just a checklist and just knocking out all the different witnesses and all the different victims you can see that inner city press is sort of is, is taking the different nodes kind of modular. So we just see that she just takes a strike at Kate next tweet. She she's going after Carolyn now. Okay. Well now let's talk about Carolyn . Carolyn got up here, says she saw a photograph of Maxwell pregnant. That's hilarious. Very interesting that she's saying that because guess what? Nobody else saw this. Nobody. So what is she up here for? I'll tell you it's very easy money. The first time ever that Maxwell was accused of anything by Carolyn guess when that was, it was during the compensation process. Okay . And if you recall, I'm sure, I'm sure that inner city press is just being , uh, you know , uh , diplomatic and nice about a lot of this, but I'm sure that managers is probably going pretty hard at her. About a lot of her consistencies. She had a lot of problems, remembering things, and her testimony was pretty bad. All around manager says, okay, remember Sean ? Carolyn's ex-boyfriend yeah. Remember that total loser out there. He's got his felony convictions. Remember when Caroline was up on the stand saying that she, you had a drug problem and she was trying to minimalize that, remember she was in and outta rehab addicted to multiple things. I think she may have even been detoxing or she may have been on methadone or something who knows, but Sean told you that they were abusing marijuana, cocaine, ecstasy, and other drugs. Okay . Caroline got up here and said, not that big of a deal. Sean said, no, we were hitting it hard. They shared a phone during their drug binges and they shared calls both Helen and Epstein. So these were two drug addicts who were wandering around and up until very recently, there were no complaints against Golin Maxwell. In fact, if you recall, Carolyn filed lawsuits met with lawyers and filed lawsuits. And presumably her lawyer said, is this everybody who abused you? And she said, yes. And guess who was not on that list? Goin Maxwell manager says, okay, now, you know, they brought out this woman, Dr . Rocko , you can see her down there in the bottom, right? Dr . Rocko manager calls her the ultimate victim. Apologist says she's not trained to question accusers accounts. She doesn't ask the accusers anything. She believes all women all the time, no matter what, she's the ultimate victim. Apologi says. If you take a look at her analysis or five factors, it's a neat little structure she's got, but there's no evidence that Gillett Maxwell groomed anyone. Not at all. Kate was dating a man Maxwell's age. In fact. So not being groomed by Epstein or Maxwell. If she's in a loving relationship with somebody else, defense attorney managers continues, says the government has no basis at all to say that Maxwell wrote the document about her relationship ship with Epstein. This document is told in the third person, it's not authenticated. They are trying to use that as evidence that she wrote it, but there is no proof that she did. So when they bring this document out, ladies and gentlemen, and they say, oh, 12 years, and we're never apart . And we're just two little love birds . It's reliable. There's no proof of that. And it's a good question. She says, you know, but you know , we heard from all these people who are really abused in this case, we heard from Kate and Carolyn and we heard from Jane and we heard from Annie, but we heard another name in this trial that came up a lot, Virginia Roberts JRE . Uh , remember that you heard her a lot . Why didn't she testify? Anybody answer that one. If she could corroborate what Carolyn told you. Remember Carolyn said that she was recruited by Virginia. If that's true and she could corroborate that. Why didn't she, why would a proper Oxford educated woman do this? Why might Virginia goof Ray not want to come in and testify? Mening says, and you remember pilot , Larry Viki . Yeah. He said he signed a nondisclosure agreement. He says, people don't want to talk about famous people flying on his plane. People like John Glen , people like bill Clinton. That's why he signed the NDA. There's not think anything weird, nothing going on there that's problematic. He just doesn't want people to feel uncomfortable. Having their privacy rights violated, fly in peace in privacy and manager continues, says, Epstein, put his helicopter in the name of he . That's why I , there was 7 million. That's why rich people do that. Epstein was generous. He was building a lodge at interlock in that was a handicapped accessible. He loved the handicap people. That's how much he loves America and humanity. It's got ramps all over the place that explains the tricky financial maneuvering that's all manager continues says certainly no one from JP Morgan told you what that money was for. And she's just on a tear. So as she's going through her closing, judge, Nathan now stands up. It's all right . Hold on, miss manager on a minute. All right . All right . Right . Pause. Pause. Break. Time says we're gonna take a real quick stretch break. And so they do everybody just kind of, you know, gets ready. Golin Maxwell stands up, stretches and sits down. You're free to do that right now. If you'd like manager, continue get back in. Your seats. Manager says, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Alessi told you when women other than visited, he would take her photo down. Remember that little story there? Why would he do that? If she was his lover and they were in a romantic relationship, why would the photos need to come down? Menger says Alessi was not doing a good job. Does being a tough boss, make you an enforcer of a code of silence. Alessi . She says, doesn't really authenticate the black address book. Does he? Because it's not actually the address book rememberI said. I recall a book that kind of looks like that because the book that they had that they admitted into evidence was not actually the book that ESI used because he had already left the employment at that time. So this book was created after the fact. Now it still got admitted into evidence because it's kind of the same thing. And the judge admitted it because it's sort of a , another iteration of something that Lesi was familiar with, but she's making the argument that it's not authenticated. And if the government really wanted to make sure that it was authenticated very easy, they could just bring in the other staff, but they didn't do that. In fact, she says that's because this is not true. Alyssa made up a bunch of stuff. The story he told you itself was not true. He didn't break into help anybody. He told you the story that he was in there to go be a savior. That's not why he went in there. It was to steal a gun. You can't trust this man's word. Don't listen to what he says, Juan Lessie , not John is dishonest and he cannot be held to be reliable. She continues on. Manager says, ladies and gentlemen, you also heard from our expert, Dr. LATI memory doesn't work like a tape recorder. You cannot rewind it and just hit play. It's very complicated. We have the barbell strategy. We have the different functional processing of the brain, the memory, some of it's real, some of it's absolutely not real. And some of it's sort of real, but in this case, ladies and gentlemen, none of these of views were recorded. Nothing is documented on the record. These are all women who have come out after the fact. And we have documented and shown you that they all, every one of them had a plan. What was the plan to get money? You heard the government come out time. And again, they'd ask , oh, over and over again. Are you sure there was no abuse in New Mexico? Dr. Dubin was solid on what she said happened. Ava Dubin Anderson came out. The only Ava that anybody has produced in this trial, the only person that might be able to corroborate what Jane said, she came out and said, absolutely did not participate in any group activities at all. So now I want, I pay close attention to this final couple sentences from Laura Menger because this is very good. She's gonna boil this down to the exact nuts and bolts that are necessary for the jurors to make the decisions. Manager says, ladies and gentlemen, it's very simple counts. Two and four. They rely on Jane. If you do not believe Jane drop the counts. Easy count six relies on Carolyn . If you do not believe Carolyn drop count six, all you need to know. She says Glenn is being tried here for being with Jeffrey Epstein. It might have been the biggest mistake of her life, but it is not a crime. Aquit her. She slams shut her binder. She turns around she fist bumps. All the defense attorneys. They sit down, judge Nathan says, all right , let's take a break folks. And those are closing arguments. Now the prosecutors are unhappy. They say, judge, Laura read from an email that was previously precluded and we want a curative instruction. And the judge says, well, just take it easy over there. There's already a , a curative instruction in the charges. The charging document that I'm about to read. Now that happens. We still are not done. Folks closing arguments continue on. Now, this is a bit shorter because this is the rebuttal clothes . And so we get a rebuttal close here because technically the government has the burden of proof. And so they get to go twice. Cuz that's what the government does. Government prosecutor, Maureen Comey , daughter of James Comey comes out, takes the podium. Ladies and gentlemen, Glenn Maxwell touched three witnesses. Breasts. The defenses came out here, tried to get you to look away. They want you to look over the massive amount of evidence that miss Moe walked you through this morning. Now you saw it in this exhibit. You saw the list of these names. You saw these invoices who on earth needs that many massages who could possibly go through all of that and who could participate in setting up all these massages and not know any better Maxwell knew she was in the room. She knew exactly what was happening. The 30 million she got is the , we did this together money. It's her payday. It's her payoff for delivering the goods to Jeffrey Epstein. Comey continues and says people who prey on children did not leave behind documents. The defendant was not walking outta massage rooms and writing a memo today. I touched James Briss. It's not how this works folks. So we have to look at the flight logs, Epstein flying to New Mexico. Then leaving a year later with this Maxwell, we are looking at the records that matter. There's not formal documentation about this abuse. Of course not. That's ridiculous. Don't expect that what miss Menger is trying to do is trying to mislead you. The flight logs, show it, the location, show it. The testimony shows it. In fact, listen to the defense's own expert. You remember professor Loftus . She came out here and talked about memory. Remember that? She said some things you never forget. You know, those moments that change your life. Imagine you had to remember Thanksgiving. Think from years ago and Turkey happens every time. You know that you know that you're gonna have mashed potatoes and stuffing, but that's a routine event. That's not a moment that changes your life. That's not one of those things that you never forget. She says, which would out more or which would I think matter more. How old on Mike Wallace's birthday or how old you were when a middle aged man assaulted you? All the defense can argue is she was 16 nor 14. When this happened still a crime doesn't matter, 16 or 14, still a crime. She says. And she goes back to Dr. Loft this's argument and says, it's like the stuffing at Thanksgiving. It's there every time. Look at these photos. She says, she's showing them up on the screen. We of course can't see them. Carolyn named Maxwell as one of the two people who had set up the massages. She told Sean that she couldn't pronounce the name cuz it's complicated. A lot of people still pronounce that name. It's okay, Sean . She continues. There is not a shred of evidence that, that a group of lawyers she says here got together and made up a story of about Maxwell. The defense is trying to make you believe that all of this is about money. That all these stories are just being made up outta thin air. They said that Carolyn Caroline didn't have any complaints against Maxwell until the very last minute. Like there's this big conspiracy, but guess what? The lawyers got their money before this trial started, everybody's been paid already. This has nothing to do about money. In fact, why would everybody here show up? Why would the ex-boyfriends come here and lie to you? Why would Juan Lessie come here and lie to you? Why would all these people who didn't get paid, come here and make this up. The , the defense is trying to dirty people up unless yeah, he admitted. He stole something. He's been totally honest with you. He's been as forthcoming as can be. They are rubbing his name in the dirt. They're saying he's a thief and a liar. He's here, ladies and gentlemen, he's here right before you telling you. Yeah, I stole, he's got no reason to lie. So she, if they wanted to frame Maxwell, if all these lawyers were a part of this big conspiracy, they would've gone deeper. But no, they're not here as part of a conspiracy. They're here. Testifying for justice. The defendant is guilty. Jeff , as Nathan says , thank you, miss . I will now read the charge and the charge of course, jury instructions. And this is a big one big long one because we have a number of different charges involving some complex issues. And so judge Nathan is going to be reading from a document that looks like this. We are not going to read all of the jury instructions because as you can see up here, they are 83 pages long. And a lot of it is pretty much, you know, standard boiler plate, jury instructions. A lot of it's gonna read a lot like a lot of the other jury instructions that we have read here on this channel. But this is a little bit of an interesting section. This one is we're spending a quick minute on it's three pages. It's three out of the 83 pages. But what they're talking about are these conspiracy charges, okay? Counts one, three and five conspiracy to violate the law. So they go through a series of different analyses and this is the judge now writing to the jurors. Okay. So to frame this out a little bit, you know, the jurors are now gonna be given a big fat stack of paper papers , 83 pages of jury instructions, and they just listen to everything. They're gonna have to take this packet back and go, all right , guess we better , uh , get through this, this thing, right? And start reading this now. I don't know how many people read on a regular basis. You know, I don't know how many people read novels, you know, or books on a regular basis. But , uh, you know , probably not, not as many as you might think. And so for some , but like a juror to be handed a big stack of, you know, big book of 83 pages and go, Ugh , and this is not like a Harry Potter book, right? This is really thick language. It's really legalese. It's annoying. And so now you're, you're supposed to be giving them this, this task of processing, all of this data, they just heard and all of these instructions and cobbling it together. It's very complicated business. And so what ends up happening I think is most people just kind of go with their gut, but let's take a look and see what this actually says. Be cuz they're gonna be giving us some guidance on how to deliberate. We're talking about conspiracy, just the conspiracy to move all this stuff around, not the actual engagement in any physical activities with anybody, just the conspiracy. So ladies and gentlemen of the jury, if you believe that the government has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there was a conspiracy, then you must also consider whether Maxwell participated in it. Okay. So you have to first like think about sort of building a house. It , if Maxwell's a part of a conspiracy, you gotta show there was a conspiracy in the first place. So if the jurors believe there was a conspiracy, now we have to decide is Maxwell in it or not. Here's how we do that in order to satisfy that second element, we have to decide whether Maxwell knowingly or willfully entered into the conspiracy with a criminal intent. Okay . So she entered into this with a purpose to violate the law. She agreed to take part in the conspiracy to promote the illegalities. Okay . So you can see how this can be complicated. Now, Maxwell, knowingly and willfully entered into this conspiracy. Okay. Well what is know and willingly mean ? It's a good question. So they give us instructions now. All right . So we're gonna have to take this sentence. You see what's happening. We have to take this sentence up that is sort of built with, you know, a plus B equal C we have to take, oh, what , what does a mean? All right , well a means this willingly and knowingly an act is done willingly or knowingly. If it's done delib and purposefully <laugh> don't you love it. That is Maxwell's actions have been her conscious objective rather than a product of a mistake or accident. Okay. Conscious objective. She intended to do this thing. It was done deliberately and purposefully purposefully. Therefore it was done knowingly and willingly. So to satisfy the , this burden, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she was a member of a conspiracy set out to accomplish an unlawful purpose. In this case, it would've been trafficking and that it was her conscious objective to do that. It wasn't a mistake. It wasn't careless. It wasn't anything that was negligent. Now the judge is telling the jurors, as I have said, knowledge is a matter of inference from proven facts. Science is not devised a manner yet of looking into somebody's mind and knowing what a person is thinking. However you do have before you evidence about certain acts and conversations and all of us took place involving Maxwell or in her presence. So can consider this evidence into making your determination says jurors. It is for you to determine whether the government establishes beyond a reasonable doubt. It's important for you to know that this participation in a conspiracy, it must be established by independent evidence of her own actions or statements as well, of those as other alleged co-conspirators and other reasonable inferences. Right? So there's a lot of gray area here. Maxwell didn't say much of anything. So was she a part of that conspiracy? Does that, does that statement that was read into the record justify that court says it's not necessary for the government to show that she was, you know, fully informed about all the details. You don't have to know everything in order to be guilty. You don't even have to know every other member of the conspiracy. So it might be other people who are part of this conspiracy that you don't know anything about. That's okay. You can still be a part of it. In addition, the judge says the duration, the extent of the participation doesn't have any bearing on guilt. She didn't have to be at there. You know , at the beginning, she didn't have to stay around until the end. It doesn't matter whether or her role in the conspiracy may have been more limited than others, as long as she was a participant. So you don't start a , you know, create a hierarchy of the different conspirators. You know, Epstein was like 60% was like 40%. Therefore is not part of it. No, she's a part of it if you're in you're in, but you also have , have to take a look at these reasonable inferences that you can glean from other facts and conversations. Now, the judge says warning, even though she doesn't have to know about it, or know all of the other co-conspirators or know all the details of this thing, she does need to know a little bit of something and be actually involved. I wanna caution you. She warns the jurors. Miss Maxwell's mere presence at the scene does not by itself, make her a member of this conspiracy. Okay. Just the fact that she's there, she's in New Mexico, she's in New York or Palm beach, or she's ping around with these people. That alone is not enough. If a person may know, or assemble or be friendly with, or, you know, kind of hang out with one or more of a conspiracy without being a conspirator herself. That's okay. You're allowed to do that. I wanna caution you that mere knowledge mere acquiescence without participation is also not sufficient. In other words, knowledge, without agreement and participation is not sufficient. So if Maxwell knew in other words, knowledge, without agreement and participation is not sufficient. So if Maxwell knew, but did not participate, that's not enough to make her a part of this. Conspiracy is what this judge is saying. So they have to make sure that they can prove that she was participating in it. What is necessary is that Maxwell did participate in the conspiracy knowledge of the purpose and with the intent to aid in the unlawful objectives, it's not necessary that she get any financial benefit that doesn't matter. As long as she's participating in the conspiracy itself, that's enough. Once the conspiracy is formed, it's presumed to continue until it's completed or until you DISA yourself from it. So you can terminate a conspiracy. But once you remember , you're presumed to continue to be a member until it's terminated, or until you have some affirmative proof that you've disassociated yourself from it. So in other words, what they're saying is if she was a part of this conspiracy, she has to affirmatively say, I'm no longer a part of it in order to be withdrawn from the conspiracy, but that's sort of, I relevant here because she's not getting any benefits or any brownie points from leaving the conspiracy. She's still being charged with the crime in some, with an understanding of the unlawful nature of the conspiracy. The defendant may have intentionally engaged, advise or assisted for the purpose of furthering an illegal undertaking. If that is the case, the defendant thereby becomes a knowing and willing participant in the unlawful agreement. That is to say she becomes a conspirator. So right . Pretty low standard. I think a juror could , a jury could easily find that there's kind of enough there to meet that standard of being in the conspiracy. Now there's other elements, right? That was, that was three pages of 83 pages. So that continues on to prove the other elements of those charges. But that was just the conspiracy portion of that. There's still a lot of additional analysis to go through. And so there's gonna be other sentences that maybe a juror latches onto and says, well, not so fast, really. You know, I didn't see that there in that one location with that one victim. And so , so I , uh, I'm excited to see what the jurors do with all of this. Now judge, Nathan, as we saw, is continuing to read the charges in court. This afternoon was reading. The entire document gets to page 50 of 83 says when Jane was under the age of 17 Maxwell participated in multiple group encounters with Epstein and Jane, that was the allegation while readout continues, they're tweeting over here. And so we get some of these different counts. The judge is now advising about what the maximum penalties are. Count one, conspiracy to entice a minor five years enticing five years conspiracy to transport five, transporting with the intent to engage 10 years conspiracy to commit five years trafficking, 40 years with a maximum there. Judge Nathan continues to read the charge . Sorry about that. Now it's almost over. She's reading 83 pages, one sentence after another in front of the jurors. So you can see how people might just , uh, uh , start falling asleep. Time is now 4 39 in the afternoon. Not sure how much deliberation could occur today. Judge says we're gonna be sticking around at 6:00 PM. So judge Nathan finally says, I'm sure if you listen to the views of your fellow jurors, they decide what the alternate jurors are. Five jurors have now been labeled. We got 1 25, 1 49, 1 51, 1 52 and one 70 are gonna be named the alternates. And so they're gonna be standing by on call . Ms. Williams . The judge says is gonna show you how to access the admitted exhibits, all rise, the jurors rise, and they go back into the deliberation room. It sounds like judge Nathan advises, the counsel in the court says, all right , well, I guess that's it folks. We're gonna wait to hear back from the jurors. I wanna thank the eight council that are all here today. I learned a lot from you Marshalls take Maxwell out of the courtroom, but if the jurors have any questions, they're gonna bring her back in. And that my friends is it. We're in deliberation, my owed for the Maxwell trial, waiting for a verdict and we're gonna continue to follow it along. I know there's a lot of people that we need to talk to people like Joe Neman, good logic. We've got inner city press. We've got add ads . There's a lot of people out there doing some amazing work following this case. And so everybody's gonna be on pins and needles this next few days to see if we get any jury questions . If anybody's coming out here asking anything, we want to see what they're asking about, whether it matters or if it leads to any hints about how they might rule on this case. And so we're gonna follow along. I hope you join us. Let's take a [email protected] and Dr. E and B at the start of the show gave a very generous, super chat, says Merry Christmas to R and R law group, doctor. That's so nice and so generous. I appreciate you being here. You're super supportive. It means the world. I'm glad that you're here. I wish you a Merry Christmas hope you're doing well out there. The good doctors in the house, hopefully doing well with this new , uh , wave of whatever's coming through. So be safe, be well and Merry Christmas doc , just cows in the house are very, just, that's so nice of you just , you don't have to do that my friend, but thank you. Merry Christmas, Rob. Much love that's from the mod . That's that's from he he's moderating over there along with Kay bean . We've got Zulu over there. Keep in order. I know Viti kiss was in here earlier, but he had to jet and I appreciate all of their help as well. And then Viva is here. Whoa says next year for Christmas, you have to do a Robert grr reads children's books. Not even joking. I would buy it. Great work as always. That's from Viva. Well, thank you, Viva. That's fun. Uh, should I read it in my angry prosecutor voice? I don't think so. I don't think that the kids would like that one, but I appreciate it . Viva love the work that you're doing. My friend, I had a lot of fun talking with you the other day. Looking forward to doing a lot more of that. I appreciate you having us on and continuing to plow ahead and sort of lead the way in a lot of different things. Thank you for that Viva. All right . And so let's take a look [email protected] and see what is coming in here from our friends over there. And uh, what have I done here? All right . Yes. Former L Leo says the fix was in when very experienced lawyers end up looking like rookies. All I can say is, trust me. That's from former L E O in the house. Oh. And I wanted to give a special shout out to Sergeant Bob and miss lucky guess who came by the office today? Sergeant Bob and miss lucky , they were just traveling through Phoenix. They stopped by, we got to hang out for about 20 minutes in the office, learned a lot about him. Sergeant Bob is going to be giving us a little bit of a talk about his book at our next monthly locals meetup. And I'm looking forward to that. He's a Sergeant very applicable to what we talk about here. Awesome. People had a lot of fun meeting with you. Thanks for taking the time. Uh , Kinkaid says , uh , good evening, sir, at Rob and Al do you agree with the government's second chance for closing? No, I don't. When was the last time a fundamental court procedures were changed due to the incorporation of advanced sociological mythology? Do you think your revision is needed or possible? No, I don't think it's fair at all. Of course. I don't think it's fair. It's ridiculous. Why do they get too cracks at it? It's nonsense. They get, they should get one shot and we should get one shot and that's it. Or if they get two, we should get two it's total BS. I don't like it at all. And there's no legal basis for that. Other than the fact that it makes our job harder. <laugh> look, the reality is the legal basis is for this is because it's beyond a reasonable doubt. It's a really high burden. It's really difficult for the government to, you know, to overcome that really momentous hurdle. And so they need two opportunities. The fact is folks, the jurors don't, you know, it , it , it , it's a topsy turvy world. Okay . Most jurors think that they're the defendant just by virtue of sitting there is guilty. So the fact that that , you know , society is so topsy turvy, that their presumption of innocence has been so watered down that people just look at a defendant and they just, oh, that guy, he did it. What , what are we here for? I don't care what the charge is. Look at him. He did it. And so then in addition to that, the , the cards are already stacked against the defendant. We already have of multi billion dollar law enforcement agencies that have, you know , been, you know , billion dollars year after year after hundreds of millions of dollars that are funding. These mega law enforcement organizations, hundreds of prosecutors, thousands of law enforcement personnel. They've got more money than anybody. All the rules are stacked in their favor. And then of them two closing arguments, get outta here. Give me a break. It's not fair, not fair at all. Jerks what a joke. All right . We have another one here from thunder. Seven says I don't see how the jury can convict. When the so-called victims Comey's team picked were , uh , prostitutes who willing me part participated . They're not even part of the trafficking, despite the salacious details. It's no different than reporting on a bordello in Nevada, yucky, but not criminal being friends or business partners with a pervert and being a pervert yourself is not a crime. I see a hung jury coming, which was the goal from the beginning, not to open up the Pandora's box of what really went on and who was involved. <laugh> yeah, it is yucky, but not criminal. I think that's a good legal bucket. You have, you have yucky and criminal, then you have yucky, but not criminal, which is, I like it. Kincaid says, are those torpedoes boxed? Who does that? I don't know. Maybe they were like stocking stuffers or something. Maybe he was re-gifting those are they a his and her set <laugh> well, I don't know. I mean , uh , I can't get into the mechanics of these things. I can't, I was gonna , uh , I can't do it. Uh , during development. Do you think some thought better about the name for PE? Do I , uh , I don't know. And lotions, lotions and lotions. Do you have any idea how hard it is to keep blood drinking lizard, skin hydrated? Oh, so that's a good reason. Yeah. I forgot about that. The scales you get dried out pretty quickly. The , the lizard are people, right? <laugh> so that's why, that's why they have all the tubes in the showers. It's just like squirting all over the place. It's like, oh gosh, this is a lot of work. <laugh> oh , man. Uh , okay. Let's continue on. Sergeant Bob is here, says more pre Mo presentation is very powerful. Yeah. Mo was good. Hers was good. Both sides were good. I mean, the prosecutors, I thought did a good job. The defense did a good job. Sergeant Bob also here says not too hard for a pilot to glance at a passenger and think a 14 to 16 year old was a bit older besides a pilot has a lot more going on than a quick glance at any passengers. Yeah. And he kind has , he kinda has his own skin to save a little bit. Right. He can't come out there and be like, yeah. I mean 14 easy. Sure. 16. Sure. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah. I mean eight . No, they definitely were not 18. That's obvious. Right? He's not gonna come out and say that he's <laugh> no , I mean, borderline but above 18. So they weren't seven and nine months. No, they were 18. How can you tell nobody can, but you know, he's gonna hold that line. It's it , it feels like post facto justification , uh , more than anything there . Sergeant Bob , I think he knew what was going on there. Kinkaid says, given the prosecution self imposed limitations and the defense's focus on the thousand and eight case , it seems almost sure that the jury will be confused. Am I correct? In thinking there's no physical evidence of Maxwell's acts regardless of the outcome, an appeal and civil agreement are very likely. Uh , yeah. I mean, I don't think that they have any evidence of any, you know, anything like a physical specimen. If that's what you're asking for, haven't seen anything like that. C rose is here, says the feds had a weak case on the merits. And I don't think the prosecutors carried their burden. I have Maxwell walking. Was there any defining moment in this trial that proved Maxwell's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt I may have missed? I don't think so. I , I mean, look, let's go through the strengths of the cases. You've got four different victims, four different victims with similar stories is a difficult thing to overcome. Okay. This is, this is a , just a , a standard prosecutor prosecute , uh , tour tactic. They need to come up with comparable cases in order to justify a pattern of behavior. So for example, if you have one person who comes forward and says , uh , person a abused me, that person comes forward. And now it's just a, he said , she said story, unless there's other corroborating evidence, right? It's it's unless there's a witness us or unless there's DNA or some evidence or there's camera or recording or text messages or something. But if none of that exists and it's just a purely, he said , she said situation , uh, you know, he did this. I didn't want that to happen. No evidence, this , you know, maybe she reports it, you know, six months later. So any of the evidence is gone. It's, it's very difficult for a prosecutor to do anything with that. Very difficult. So what they have to do then is get multiple of those patterns. Okay. Well, we have one of those cases that we didn't get much good data on, and we have another one that sounds similar, where we have a little bit more, we have some other ones where we're missing some of, of what's in case a, but we have more of what's in case C. And so we kind of, if we have four different cases, is that we can kind of piece together one good case, or we can see enough here that there's a pattern that we can convince in a jury that this is this person's Mo so here, the government has that, right? They've got four victims and they're showing a pattern and there's a similar story and they're all following more or less the same train tracks, which is , which is all good. You have a couple people who are, you know, tell more persuasive stories, Annie farmer , which I think may not even be a named victim anymore. And you have Kate, which, you know, had some good testimony and Jane had some good testimony, but Carolyn's testimony was pretty bad. But even of all of those things, I'm, I'm not sure that you're gonna get a full solid, I mean, I think Jane is probably the CLO the strongest victim of all of them. I'd be curious to see what some other people think about that, but it's no, I don't think you're missing anything. There's no slam dunk, you know, video evidence or video photograph of and Annie or, and Jane or Glen . There's no direct evidence of this. This is all sort of, you know, influential, good question. C rose. I'm not, I'm not thinking of anything. Uh, Jeremy Madrea says, Rob, your accounting of the Glenn Maxwell trial has been excellent. I think you should compile them into an audio book. The trial of written and performed by Robert gr or Esquire. I feel like I, in the right, I feel like I'm right there in the courtroom. Not sure what the rules of evidence are after a trial concludes, but you could even include your mind map and photos for the hard copy. Well, that's funny. Thank you Jeremy, for that. It's a very nice compliment. I don't know that anybody wants to relive any of this, but I appreciate it. Kincaid says I am visually impaired and had a joke loaded up something about chairs, streamlining, streamlining the process. But Epstein is not really a handsfree kind of guy. So I see what you did there. Epstein is not a hands free kind of guy at all. He likes to be very involved. <laugh> we've got grouchy, old cat lady. He says back in the sixties, there were in-home personally fitted. Bra salesman . Definitely handled my breasts. <laugh> do I get to collect 1.5 million? And if I bought one, I had to pay her. Oh, well it was a girl, right? So it was female saleswoman. <laugh> right . No, because it's, I think it's okay if it's female, that's hilarious. In the sixties personally fitted bra saleswoman definitely handled my breasts. <laugh> do I get to collect one ? I don't know . Sue 'em are they still around? You can file a lawsuit. Grouchy cat lady. Don't think you'll recover, but news now says good logic says there is reasonable doubt with the evidence presented. It will be interesting if the jury determines only the evidence presented without putting feelings in. Yeah. I mean, sounds about right. What evidence they , they went for eight days folks. They had eight days <laugh> Derek Chauvin was 11 days. What a joke. All right . So yeah, I mean, sounds about right. Kinkaid says that that word is slang for maps. I don't know what that means, Kincaid, but thank you for that. And grouchy old cat lady says, so wish they'd broadcast the trial . So we could only see the jury what the jury witnesses. It would be a lot easier to decide. Yeah. It would be a lot easier to decide. And if you <affirmative> , you know, if you can actually see the people who are testifying and you can see their body language, you can judge their credibility so much better than you can just reading a transcript. Right? Cuz you can tell sometimes people will say stuff and it's not, you know, it doesn't look genuine. It doesn't look credible. The words are credible. You can and read it and you go that's well that's that makes sense. But the way they deliver it, you're like that's a liar right there. So you don't get to see any of that when we're only observing this from , uh , the angles that we're observing it from. And so that my friends is it for us for the day, which means we're back here tomorrow to do this all again, same place, the same location. And uh, I'm not sure if we're gonna have a verdict yet or not, but we're gonna continue to follow along. And in the meantime, we've got a lot of other additional stories to cover and I wanna make sure you're around here to join us as we do that. And so before we get outta here, let's welcome some new members [email protected] big welcomes over to Falcon us N Y we've got ya . Well is here re signed up? Not R WC one 10. Chuck David mark on w we've got Shindo nosy, Texas Rosie TA's mom. We have a TAs mom . We have cookie monster two , a J DHA , Molly pop Inc guitar. Terry Randy J 98, Westworld equestrian girl, Richie, DC , red Jersey, Nick dragon, things and stuff. We got Donald 1 0 7, the vez Jimmy w big other bites , Kimmy cat three, Kevin AZ. Antar 24 queen of Tennessee re Lee music box lady big re Fanta MC Gloria . We've got black cat Meow, Nick MCLE out Dr. Brenton T Blakemore and Patriot minute . And I wanna give shoutouts to everybody [email protected] chatting away over there. Big shoutouts over to be spec . Jerry Madrea is in the house. We've got Buma lick or boom. I like it. Depending on who you ask, jump in , Jeff is in the house as well. Uh , and thank you everybody for keeping that chat cozy over there. We have over on rumble. We've got VTI . Cuz prime was over there. We've got it's all political 20, 20 TC T Y C H news is over there Manis 69. And we've got H merrier over on rumble, which is great. We got a little bit more activity over there on rumble. So we've got a second platform. And of course, through our friends over on YouTube shout outs to Zulu, just Kyles , we got Texas beast. We have Jason Lewis, Curtis Bartel, Katie Kay bean is here. We have Trent warmer. I haven't seen lean today. There's lean . Hey, lean . Good to see you. We have Jay butcher and many other are chatting away on YouTube and everybody. Thank you for being a part of the show today. We're gonna do it all again. Tomorrow. Same time, same place, 4:00 PM. Arizona time, which is mountain six is , uh , five is central 6:00 PM on the east coast, back over to 3:00 PM on the west coast. And so my friends have a tremendous evening sleep there . Well , I'll see you right back here tomorrow. Bye bye .