Ghislaine Maxwell Defense Names 35 Witnesses, Ian Maxwell on Epstein’s Death, New Exhibits

The Court may be taking a break from trial, but there is plenty of behind-the-scenes activity in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial, including.

🔹 New exhibits from the Ghislaine Maxwell trial are released, and we review various pictures of Epstein’s properties. 
🔹 New photographs of Epstein’s Palm Beach Mansion interior from the 1990s raid.
🔹 Epstein’s New Mexico Ranch is in the middle of nowhere, and available to a person of Epstein’s tastes for $27.5 million.
🔹 Government prosecutors get a good ruling regarding the Epstein Black Book (Government Exhibit 52) and we review the Court’s ruling.
🔹 Defense attorneys and government prosecutors enter a stipulated limited jury instruction regarding the Black Book.
🔹 Prosecutors reveal that Ghislaine’s defense team has disclosed 35 (!) defense witnesses.
🔹 Maxwell’s defense lawyer Bobbi Sternheim communicates that they have a number of defense witness that may have travel difficulties.
🔹 Ian Maxwell, Ghislaine’s brother, was interviewed by the Spectator and we listen to his thoughts.
🔹 Does Ghislaine Maxwell think Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide – or that he was killed?
🔹 How much money did lawyers make suing the Epstein estate? Ian Maxwell takes a guess.
🔹 Your comments and questions!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello, my friends. And welcome back to yet. Another episode of watching the Watchers live. My name is Robert grr. I am a criminal defense attorney here at the R and R law group. And today we're talking about Golin Maxwell. We've been covering this trial for a long time now and the court is taking a little bit of a pause, a break in the trial. So we don't actually have court today. We don't have work tomorrow. We don't have court on Wednesday, but we're back on Thursday for testimony, but that doesn't mean that the trial has stopped or that activity has stopped behind the scenes. It's actually quite the opposite. A lot of activity is taking place over the weekend. We had a whole laundry list of, uh, new issues that we could dive into and we're going to on the show. And so we're gonna talk about a few things regarding Epstein. We we're gonna start off by picking up where we left off last week. We remember that we were reviewing a whole slew of exhibits. We're gonna just pick up and take a look at some of this stuff. This is one exhibit that we haven't seen yet. And so we're gonna bounce around a couple of, of, uh, Epstein's different properties over into New Mexico. Of course, that was the Zoro ranch. We'll take a look at that from an aerial photograph about sort of the map overview, and we can see how secluded it is. I mean, it really is like in the middle of nowhere, which makes it that much, uh, creepier. And so we're gonna go through that because as we've talked about this, exhibit it, the exhibits in this trial continue to leak out every single day, uh, after or not leaking out. They're being published after the trial concludes. And so we're able to go through them after effect, and we'll do that in our second segment. We're gonna take a look at what's happening with government exhibit 52 government exhibit 52 was a very important exhibit. This was the black book, Epstein's black book with all the contact information. And so it looks something like this. And so part of our second segment, we're gonna be actually going through the black book. That's, uh, just a preview of what we're gonna be looking at the whole document, the entire black book, or at least the alleged document, the alleged black book, just something that's floating around, out there on Twitter and elsewhere is available in the mine map available@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. Then in our final segment, we're gonna be talking about this guy. He actually is Glen Maxwell's brother. This is Ian Maxwell. And over the weekend, actually I think this was on Friday. He came out and he gave an interview over with the spectator and he had some very interesting little tidbits to share in particular about Golin Maxwell and what some of her thoughts are relating to Epstein's death. Did she think that Epstein killed himself? Huh? It's a good question. So we're gonna go and check in and see what Ian thinks about go Lynn. Obviously we have not heard from Glen, but he is close to her. And so he'll tell us presumably what she thinks. I'm also curious what you think. Do you think Epstein killed himself? Do you think that he was somebody who was killed? Do you think he's still alive? What do you think? We have a new poll feature as a part of, uh, this show that looks like this, and you can see you, the all audience get to participate in the program. You get to be a part of it and I love it. So if you wanna vote on the poll, you can do that. As long as you're here live. Obviously if you're watching this in a recording, then you're not gonna be able to vote on it. But if you are watching this, then you can go and vote. I just reshared the poll form. And you can chime in. Did Epstein kill himself? Was he killed? Is he still alive? Or do you not know any one of those? This is of course valid. So if you also wanna be a part of the program, a part of the show, the place to do that with questions is over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. We've got a form over there. Looks just like this, and we are taking super chats. Of course, super chats pop in. They look like that right on the screen. Dapper. Dave submitted that yesterday. I think we forgot that one. I apologize, dapper Dave, but he said, Robert, I have something to you, super chat on, but it's redacted. PS Juang is next. We will cover Julian. Asange still waiting for him to sort of be received by the us government. And we'll see where that goes. We've got a clips channel. If you're looking for clips, check, those is out at Robert ruler, Esq clips. Okay. Enough of that let's get into the actual Contently Maxwell trial is on a bit of a pause court said that for three days, no actual in court trials, but that doesn't mean we can't see the exhibits that continue to leak out from the preceding week. We have a number of them that we have not looked at on this channel before we can sort of peer in and see what the jurors are seeing. And remember, that's why we're looking at these things. The jurors are trying to concoct a, a broad overview, a mind map in their minds about how this all connects. And it's a lot it's complicated. And you and I on this channel, we have just been covering the transcripts, what some amazing reporters and journalists have been talking about from their reporting. But we haven't really seen a lot of these exhibits. And so we're, we haven't even seen the faces of many of these victims and a, a lot of the people that are testifying, cuz this is all federal court. And so when we get to see these images, we get to see what the jurors are seeing. This is one of them, one of Epstein's properties, of course, this is little St. James outs near the, uh, Caribbean, the British islands. You can see this is exhibit 3 26. And this was part of the testimony we heard from Viki and a number of other people who were communicating about this island. And we're gonna spend just a quick minute sort of touring around it so we can piece it all together because this is where a lot of those nefarious activities took place. This is where all of the, the people who were on vis AKIs planes were flying and landing. And uh, this is where it all happened. And so where is this place as we can see, it's just off of Puerto Rico, it's out there. You can see this island, little St. James. It is north of Venezuela. It is off of the Dominican Republic in Cuba. You can see off of Florida probably, uh, can fly somewhere near, you know, maybe San Juan, Puerto Rico, and then scoot over onto little St James or somewhere in that area. But this is the world. This is the part of the world that we're talking about. If you're not familiar with it, if you zoom in on this, we've got little St James, you can see it's this little island here. And I actually believe that I shared a or have a link to this. And so let me see if I can, uh, just open this up because yeah, I think I opened this up cause I want to sort of take a quick moment and zoom in on this. This is the actual island that Epstein was flying to. So this is little St. James via Google earth. And so as we poke around, we're gonna be able to take a look at some of the different, the, you know, the different landmarks on here. And so we were just taking a look here. Here is, uh, one image you can see sort of, this is off of one of the coasts. I got a big, uh, looks like a dock hanging off there for boats. And I mean, you know, it's, it's a really, really nice image. And so back to Google maps, we can see, we can sort of bounce around the island, not real high resolution photographs, but we can see, looks like maybe a pool out there, uh, for some lounging activities, we've got some greenery number of different properties all around the island. This looks like it may have been that area where there was the dock. You see, this dock is over here. And so, you know, not a terribly huge island, just a number of different buildings. But, uh, if, if somebody were giving you an island, you'd say, yeah, it's not big. It's not that big. But yeah. I mean, I guess I'll take it. I, I could probably make, do with it. So, you know, this is what it looks like, and it's very secluded. This is one of those themes that we're gonna keep seeing with, uh, Epstein's properties. He's very sec, it, he kind of, you know, isolates himself from other people. And so this is little St James, if you're gonna bring in somebody that you're trafficking, and if you're gonna wanna make sure that they feel isolated and like they can never possibly leave. This seems like it might be a pretty good spot cuz when you start to zoom out, you know, I, first of all, you're on an island, but when you zoom out, you realize you're on a pretty Tylee island. That's in a pretty tiny spot in the middle of the ocean, not even remotely close to anything. So, you know, very, very secluded and uh, exactly what you would expect. Somebody like Epstein to use. It's very convenient for him to maneuver people over to that area. So we've got more photographs. Now, these photographs actually were not part of the court record. These came out from, uh, these were taken it the seems like somebody who's been flying around this island very recently, this was on December 4th. I believe these photographs were taken of this year of 2021 kind of surveilling the, the property taking photographs. This was a very interesting part on the island. This is one of those buildings that, you know, people are speculating. What is this thing? What the heck's going on here. This is, uh, just, you know, an aerial of view of this weird, weird building. Many people, you know, have conspiracy theories about what this is. And uh, you can just see as we go around the property, there's the pool that we were talking about. It is, uh, private property, no trespassing. This sign is from a photograph taken from 2019. So this is before, you know, a lot of the Glen Maxwell stuff started heating up it. And then as we continue around, we see, you know, just more footage, uh, uh, more, more photographs. People are going around the island and taking pictures. Now this is that one, photograph that, and this is that one building that raises a lot of eyebrows. What is this weird little bizarre, you know, building out there is this a, uh, man cave? Is this a dungeon? Is this someplace where there are human sacrifices or rituals? Does he go out there and play halo? What does he do? You know, I don't know what's going on. So a lot of people have questions about it. We can see you just kind of bounce around. Now we get to another exhibit. Now this is back from Palm beach. And so we leave little St James and we go back to Palm beach. This is back from the Florida raid. And you can see that this is the kitchen. Now we have not seen this side of, uh, the exhibits, the other, you know, exhibits were a little bit more, you know, salacious, not too much to really glean from here. Looks like a pretty standard kitchen, kind of has that nineties vibe, but it's white. And it's kind of back in on now these nineties kitchens, but again, not much, not too much to glean from here. Now, if you go over here and look at the books, you know, who knows what they were able to, uh, pick up, if they were able to find anything out of there worthwhile, or if there's anything, you know, or is it just a RA, a regular standard kitchen with a foreman grill or whatever that is. So you can see, we now move around to other parts of the property. Uh, again, this is in Palm. So it has that sort of that Palm beach floor vibe to it. Somebody's looking at, it looks like furniture coverings or, you know, fabrics samples or whatever that is on the floor. The rest of this, not, not too much to report, not too much is being redacted. We see some woman over here on the right, uh, from law enforcement. Who's standing out there, uh, you know, part of the raid part of the investigation, but nothing salacious, nothing that we're gonna see now that is too interesting. Turn around, same type of thing here. We see a router on the back. This is an office, you know, not even really any technology, no computers, we see this plastic or whatever that, whatever that style was back from the nineties, if your nineties person, you know, uh, a nineties child, you remember that I certainly do. We have, uh, the stairway again, not too much interesting here. This is going over to the New York apartment. And so there's some interesting, this is, this was interesting. You can see this photograph. This is not part of the trial. This came from, I think the New York post, uh, posted this one and you can see the Crow bar, the Crow bar, uh, breaking and entering from police during the FBI, raid that back when they went into his New York location and, and, uh, you know, got all the hard drives and we saw all the photographs and all of that. And so they actually just rammed that prime Mar the, uh, the crowbar right in there and pride that puppy right open. And we also see that JE was sort of mounted here into the stone on the wall and, uh, that has been removed. So some has peeled that out off of the wall for, uh, I guess, memory for eternal memory. Now we also remember that we had a lot of testimony from a lot of people, including just about everybody. Um, in particular, Annie farmer was the last one that we heard about was, uh, some, some contact over at that Zoro ranch in New Mexico. And so now we get a little bit more details on this ranch. This was that really creepy ranch. If you've been with this channel for some time, this was the place that Epstein wanted to, uh, concoct his future plan for saving humanity. He was going to, I, I guess, inseminate thousands of women and they were all gonna live at this ranch and he was gonna and appropriate and spread his seed for, uh, the benefit of mankind or something insane like that. And this was like a real deal. We covered this as a real story. He was telling people about this in different medical, uh, journals. And he was actually researching this, how do we do this? And how do we, you know, make this a real thing? And he's talking like Harvard scientists and they're all going, what's a little strange there, but Nope, you know, this is Jeffrey Epstein back at the time, he's sort of the pinnacle in the, in the global social hierarchy. Everybody wants his ear for some reason. And nobody's telling him no. So we go back to this mansion. Now this is in New Mexico was the one I think, uh, Jane was the first, the first person to testify about this. In fact, let's take a quick pause and check out the mind map and just get our bearing straight on this one, because I think it was, it was Jane. If we zoom in on this. Yeah. This 14, I think, well, it may, it may not have been Jane. In fact it may have been Kate. Yeah. So they're, you know, they're, they're kind of all over the place, but we go back to this and we can see, this is the entry. This is exhibit 3 28. This is the government submitting this. And they're gonna be showing all of the jurors about this ranch. And again, the theme that we're talking about is sort of isolation. He's taking them to little St. James and he is absconding them from their, and he's grooming them five point step until he's able to seclude them away. It goes from the physical touch to the massage all the way up to the more illegal touching, but they've gotta get him secluded. And they tell their moms that they're going on vacation with a billionaire, and he's gonna help them go to interlock in school of arts and the, uh, school for the, the gifted in New York or whatever it's called. And you can see as we're going into Zoro ranch, it's kind of in the middle of nowhere, you see this photograph was the same one that it looks like this is Virginia Guffy, Virginia Guffy of course, is the person who, uh, started a lot of this Virginia Guffy was, uh, actually suing Maxwell. And part of the reason why we have those perjury charges that Maxwell is facing is because of Virginia Guffy and her, uh, her lawsuit. Yeah. And so Virginia Guffy is this woman we can see here. Her lawyer is secret McCauley, and there was a 2016 defamation lawsuit. So this is her. And then this is her back on the Zoro ranch. Now the government is going through and they're submitting every one of these exhibits. And you can see there's a lot here. This is exhibit 3 23. This is the New Mexico ranch. Now, if you look at this, it doesn't look, you know, all that ominous, it looks like, oh, it kind of looks like a hotel maybe, or like a, a nice, you know, getaway ranch, where you can just go and, you know, write a novel or something like that. Doesn't look nefarious at all. But when you start to really dive into this thing, you kind of realize it, it really is sort of in the middle of nowhere, and we're gonna zoom out on this and see exactly what's going on. But before we do that, I show you something else. That's kind of interesting here. This entire property is for sale. Let's do it this way. Let's start with the actual map and we'll, we'll poke around and we'll sort of zoom out on where this thing is located. So if you go over on Google maps and you take a look at the Zoro ranch, and we zoom in, you'll see that that same building is right here that we saw. And this is that little sort of weird labyrinth or garden area, kind of a landscape feature, or it's a, a place where he sacrifices, you know, the blood avers or something. You know, I have no idea what's going on here, but this is it. Now this is, this is a big portion of the property. This is not it. Of course, the ranch is huge. This ISOR road. And again, we're talking isolation. We talked about where little St James was, and we just keep zooming out. And there's nothing around got highway 41 over there. We just keep zooming on out. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing almost as far as the eye can see until we start to get really far out, then we start to see some cities coming in. We've got Albuquerque over here to the west. We've got Santa Fe up here to the north, but really when you zoom in, there's it it's really secluded. We've got this one house here. We've got a number of different roads that you can follow all the way around, through different parts of the property. So for example, if you leave this little human sacrifice center down here at the center of this park, and you go on this road a little bit north, uh, go to the west, you make a right. You go up here and then you're gonna see all sorts of different parts of these other houses that are sort of tucked away, secluded up in the hillside. So we've got this house, right? Don't know what that one is, but again, nothing around you drive a little bit further up O on the road and you have another house that's tucked away up in here. And so if you're gonna be doing something, yeah, it's kind of a good spot because there's nothing around as far as the eye can see. Remember some of the testimony from Viki was talking about the landing strip. And so let's say you're coming up on the 41 and you're, I'm gonna go visit the Epstein ranch. And you're coming in here. You're gonna make a, a right onto Zoro ranch road off of highway 41. You're gonna stop right here at this sort of center complex, which has a lot of, you know, a lot of different buildings and might wanna check in there and make sure that you're good. That's the entry port point of the ranch over here. We can see that we have the airstrip now. So it's a huge portion, right? This is where, uh, Epstein would actually land his planes. Arguably golden Maxwell was there as well on some of those flights. And as you just navigate around the property, you can see, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a very, very big piece of property with buildings and, and, you know, sort of interesting things, scattered all over the place now, this property for sale. And so we can actually take a look at the listing because I, I happen to pull it up and let's do that now, shall we? Because it is interesting. We can, uh, take a look at the Zoro ranch here it is. This is the property. Now this puppy is going for 27 and a half million dollars. So when you look at it, do out just a little bit, you can see some of these, uh, some of these features, we've got a main residence. We've got a caretaker's residence. We have a ranch central, we've got Adobe yellow house, uh, red house, bunk houses, firehouse. They've got a heated garage with seven bay located nearby. It is, you know, it is a nice property. Looks like it has a little bit of a barn firehouse, something to that effect, the yellow house, the red house. You can see all of that, uh, that has a greenhouse huge stables can really sort of zoom in and, and see the detail all over the place. Right? Very, very big property. It's got a tennis cord. Here's the blue house, two bedroom, two bathroom includes two vehicle garage, tennis court, basketball goals, the log cabin, 710 square foot cabin. Here's the airstrip. Now the airstrip, it has grass approximately 4,400 feet in length. This location is equipped with a hanger and a helipad. The potential to extend this extend, this landing strip has been explored, and this information is available to the next donor. So if you too want a place where you can traffic your, uh, your goods and you got 27 and a half million bucks, this is a good spot to do it. The land it's located on a scenic route, approximately 35 minutes from to Fay property includes 7,575 deed acres, plus 423 acres of BLM leased land. So that's bureau of land management, leased land. So huge, huge, huge property in the middle of nowhere, looks like it has a water, a watering hole. And so that is the Epstein compound. Once again, basically in the middle of nowhere. And you can see once you're there, once you're there at that little red dot that's, that's the sacrificial, uh, home, you are kind of alone. Again, 35 minutes, the closest right way is gonna be north on the 41. Up until you sort of gets to the 14 up until you reach Santa Fe 35 minute ride. So you're not going anywhere, which is why you gotta fly in there. And that is this exhibit. This is what the government is showing the jurors. So that's been some admitted. Now here's just a couple other photographs to kind of just show you the scale. You know, this is what it looks like completely isolated, not easily accessible at all. Number of different roads will go in there. But yeah, once you're there, you're kind of there. You can see a different angle of the, uh, sacrificial garden, interior of the ranch or of the stables, terrible of you tennis court. If you're feeling energetic on that Saturday morning, we've got a log cabin. We've got a nice library. I'll give'em this, this library looks pretty dang good. I'd be happy with that library, but that is it for the exhibits. And so a of this stuff is pretty benign, right? We don't see anything that's redacted. We've seen a lot of stuff that, that came out that was very creepy. We saw these huge portions of walls and artwork that had these big black frames that were censoring out something that must have been pretty horrendous. And so here, we don't see any of that. You know, we don't really see any weird figures or figurines or anything like that. This is, this is mostly, you know, kind of vanilla other than the fact that it is extremely isolated. It's located in the, in the middle of nowhere. And we're seeing this pattern now pick itself up from little St. James over to New Mexico, and the list goes on and on. And so we are going to continue with it. Did coverage as, as more exhibits leak out or, or are published. We'll continue to talk about those here. Next up. We're talking about what's next. Oh yes. Goin Maxwell, docket update. We've got a lot of activity taking place in the courts. Now trial is not in session, but doesn't mean that we're not done. We're not watching what's happening. We've got this item. This is government exhibit 52. This is a very contentious piece of evidence that both sides have been fighting over for some period of time. And we're going to take a look at this in particular. Now, if you are somebody who is a supporter@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com, let's just get a quick pause. And I may may be making this entire mind map, just you know, available, but let's see here, if you are a, a supporter over there and you have access to this mind map like this user does right here, whoever that is guest number eight, and you click on Jeffrey Epstein and you zoom in here, you're gonna see this black book. Now, if you click this little paper clip, you can see that the entire, your book, or at least what some people are saying is the entire book. A 92 page book starts in alphabetical order with Abby. And it works its way all the way down. And you can just start scrubbing through names here, a lot of different names. And this is that same testimony that one Alessie was talking about out member one, Alessi was the individual who was the housekeeper for Epstein. And he was saying that as part of his house duties, they had to put a copy of this black book by the bedroom tables, by the side tables where the phones were. We didn't have iPhones back in the 1990s. So they had to use these books. And so the whole thing allegedly is floating around on the internet. Remember there are, there are just, you know, dozens and dozens of lawsuits and lawsuits and discovery and different documents that have been, uh, exchanged as a result of Epstein and Maxwell. So you have to take all of these different documents with a grain of salt, but you can see all the names in here. Right? Very, very, very, very extensive. So don't know exactly where this came from, but it is being claimed that this is the entire Epstein black book, or at least one of them remember there were multiple versions of this continued to come out, um, as the case progressed. And so, yeah, some people taking a look at that right now, which is great. All right. So let's take a look at the court docket. Now trial is not in session, but we do have docket updates. Quite a lot of them actually, we're gonna start with one that came out last week, but it was from 12 nine. And it's talking about that, that black book that we were just talking about specifically, and it, it specifically, you're gonna see it says here it's government exhibit 52, the judge came out and issued a memorandum opinion. In order, both sides are fighting about this. We have been battling, can we get this exhibit admitted? Can the jurors see that document that I showed you? Yes or no. Can they see it without redactions? Can they see the whole thing? Yes or no? We don't know. So the judge issued a ruling. We're gonna read through this ruling. It is interesting. It's actually a pretty, pretty nice little win there for the prosecutors. So we'll get back to that. We had an entry on 12, nine, nothing too much to report there. We have some transcripts and notice that the transcripts were posted. We can't see any of that. Of course. So we can skip over those. Then we have a couple different letters coming in. We we're gonna see that this letter limiting the instruction for this document. So for exhibit 52 government exhibit 52 for the black book, we're gonna talk about that. And then you're gonna see these two letters that came out on Sunday on 12, 12, a letter from the us prosecutors over to the court, and then a letter from Bobby stern Heim also to the court saying, we've gotta talk about these witnesses. Remember that the government has rested. Now their case in chief is now done. They have no more evidence to present kind of a little bit short. Doesn't it feel like it eight days of testimony, we had 10 days of actual trial plus a sick day. Plus opening arguments kind of about eight days started late. Most of those, maybe seven and a half days of testimony by the government prosecutors. Now it's the defense turn and the defense is disclosed a whole bunch of stuff. And we're gonna talk about it, probably more witnesses than the government, which is pretty interesting. What let's talk about this black book first, shall we? A lot of people are going through that document that I shared. And here we can see that people are starting to highlight some pretty big names. Somebody wrote here wrote case Simon, okay. Whoever that is, don't know, but you can see people are going through this and they're identifying names. So we're having an issue with this judges specifically saying, all right, here's my final ruling. They're talking about the government versus the defense government wants to submit this book. The defense does not want to submit it. Judge Nathan says, all right, boys and girls, the government seeks to admit, what's been identified as exhibit 52, and they wanna submit a redacted version of that document. The defense objects to that they say, it's not authentic. And it's irrelevant. It's hearsay. The admisibility of this exhibit has been the subject of a lot of fighting. This includes supplemental briefing. We've authenticated, a number of witnesses. We talked to Juan lessi. He's the housekeeper. He under Rick went direct examination and the defense asked him a bunch of questions. The court reserved a ruling on this exhibit a until after his testimony came out the court. Now overrules the defendant's objections. Guess what? Government exhibit 52 sounds like it's coming in. Uhoh well, I wonder how redacted it's gonna be. Cuz there's a lot of interesting names in there, including this guys. Oh, Alec Baldwin. What are you doing in Epstein's black book there? My friend. Hmm. Lot of interesting names. You can see this one came out of this section. Apparently. Probably the same guy I would guess. And so it doesn't mean anything. You can't equate guilt for Alec Baldwin. And just because he's in somebody's phone book, who knows if he wanted to be in the phone book, anybody can just add you to their phone book. You can't be guilty by association. Can you? I don't know. Maybe you can. So we have some other names that are popping up. We've got, uh, Neil, Andrew or Andrew Neil. Apparently this is somebody over, you know, in the UK, he's a airman of sky TV, publisher of the Scotsman. Apparently he's in that list. And so you can see, there are some big names, Alec Baldwin, that guy, some other UK people, a lot of concern about this. So can we get this in? Is it reliable? The defense says it's not, we can't even prove it's authentic. We have no idea what it says. It's an out of court statement. It's being brought in here to tell a story. And that story that it's, it's trying to tell, it's not accurate. We can't rely on any of it. So the judge says, all right, well, it's coming in anyways. Thanks for your objection. But here's why I'm letting it in. They go back to rule 9 0 1 federal rules of evidence. And they're gonna give us a lot of language here. Talking about that. All the, all that is required is that a reasonable juror could find in favor of authenticity or identification. You see this it's a minimal standard. All you need is testimony of a witness with knowledge. That a matter is what it is claimed to be. That's it? So here we've got Juan lessi. He comes out and he says, this is the black book that Epstein used. That's it minimal standard, not all that complicated. Then she goes through and talks about hearsay. Well, what is hearsay? You know, you're objection, objecting here. You're saying that this is a hearsay problem. They go and they define it. They start, well, first we're gonna do I address this? We're gonna, you know, take, take a look at rule 9 0 1 and we're gonna say that. Yeah, Juan Alesi when he came out and testified, that's it? That was sufficient to meet the standard. He said that when he came out in court that he worked at Palm beach residence from 1990 to 2002, 12 years, it's a long time. It, his job required him to require, uh, it's been a significant of time at the residence. Based on his years, working there, he recalled Epstein and Ms. Maxwell. They maintained telephone directories. And that was, uh, and that exhibit 52 was a version of those directories. Juan, not John, by the way, first testified about the function of the telephone directories in the Palm beach residence. He recalled first seeing them in 19 five or 1996, he testified where in the home they were kept. He said quote in the kitchen desk. And so this is what the Def the defense was trying to beat him up over this, right? You don't remember you, you know, this is a different book than the one that you saw, blah, blah, blah. Juan comes out. Not John testifies. Epstein had three desks in the house. Ms. Maxwells was on, uh, each side of her night table or on Mr. Epstein's night table. Juan said that the directories were updated either once or twice a year. New contacts were added to each new copy. Lesi said that. No, I'm sorry. The judge says that Les's testimony is corroborated by exhibit 6 0 6, the house hold manual. And remember the household manual. We saw, we have this in the mind map as well. We saw that it's directly connected to Juan Alessi. So if we go back over to Juan, if we go to our exhibits, we see that Juan is an employee of the Epsteins. He was primarily based out of Palm beach. Juan Alessi, the household manual is right here. Guess what? As part of the manual, it says that they he's gotta place a telephone book by their bedside. We talked about how sort of sociopathic and insane this whole thing was. You see it right here. A copy of Mr. Epstein and Ms. Act Maxwell telephone directories must be placed to the right of each telephone except for the guest rooms. Okay. So what the judge is saying is, yeah, guess what? Juan came and talked about it. And the government picked up an exhibit and 6 0 6 matches Juan's testimony. And so therefore, good enough. A lessee's identifying the manual. He references the GE and GM telephone directories. He says that he, he calls them quote books with hundreds and hundreds of names and telephone numbers, which matches GX six oh six. That was the other exhibit of the household manual. He also explained the physical appearance of the directories. So he actually described them physically. He explained how the books had a quote type of hard binding. He said that they were, ah, they're either blue or black. They're kind of the size of a large telephone as to the contents. He says that the directories, he observed quote, contain a list of alphabetical order of all the people, friends, families, and businesses with Mr. Epstein and Mr. Maxwell, Jane's contact and quote a page with the massages. Uhoh the massage therapist for Palm beach. And that kind of looks like what we just looked at. Doesn't it almost exactly. That sounds exactly like what we looked at. The actual black book that was here as part of the mind map it's alphabetical order starts with Abby. Joanna Alejandro works its way all the way down. We get to S we got some Maxwell names. Don't know if we massage page in this one, but this is what we're fighting about. Judge continues and says after examining government exhibit 52, Juan testified that the type of black book quote, it was the same as the directories. He just recalled observing over the last six of his 10 years there, as for the appearance, he testified that 52 had quote exactly the same cover of the directories. I saw quote, the same binding, exactly the same layout as the books he recalled while he did note that GX 52 was thinner and had quote a much smaller font than the books he recalled. He overall said that the format was the same as for the contents. He said that he reviewed every page of the exhibit and he recognized many, many, many, many names amongst the entries, including some of the entries that were quote for massage in Palm beach. Ugh, not good. So one lessi now is just a connecting all the dots and the defense objected to this thing. And now the judge is just rolling. One thing after the other saying, yeah, and this is connected and this is connected and this is connected and this is connected. And so the judge is just gonna take apart the defense here. One step at a time, the defense, she says it, first objects. They say, Mr. Alessia has no personal knowledge about the creation of this directory. And thus, he can't authenticate it. So yes, even though Juan lessi can recognize a directory, cuz he worked there for so long. He wasn't working there. When this directory came out, this directory came out. The one that we're talking about specifically, Juan less. And he's never seen that before today at all, when he worked there, we had a different format. We had a different font. The whole book was different, different names, everyth different. So the defense says, yeah, okay. So what if he can identify it? If it looks the same, nobody cares this directory. He can't authenticate. Judge says yeah. But unless he acknowledged that this was different than, than the others. He said, it's not as thick as those other versions. He said his, his name and his wife's names were in the version that he observed. But I didn't see his name or his wife's name and this new one, obviously he wasn't working there anymore. So they pulled his name out of the book. Judge says, but a document admitted under the rules, even when no witness saw the creation of document, it may be admitted at trial. Even if you didn't see it, if you can still, if it's reliable enough, then we can still get that admitted. She gives us an example. She goes through another court case. And so we'll just kind of, uh, jump over that. But she tells us that cases, they in fact have allowed a witness to authenticate documents, even if they were not a recipient of this specific document. So somebody else can authenticate something as being sort of something that's used in the course of an activity, even though they didn't see it actually be created. Okay. A little bit more here, judge Nathan continue. She says, okay, now I've concluded. Want a Lessie? The testimony that he gave it sufficiently authenticates the black book. There's a well-read path here. A lessee's testimony established intimate familiarity with the distinctive directories used in the Palm beach residence. He was there many times during the conspiracy, the alleged conspiracy. He testified it was the same type of book with the same binding, the same cover, the same information, this testimony about the appearance, content, substance, all of that stuff. That's sufficient enough to establish the rules. So the defense now, even though that you're saying that this is not authentic, I'm finding that it is authentic and you're gonna still object. You're gonna say, well, at least we should talk about the weight of the evidence, not the admisibility. So for example, we should say that, okay, maybe it's technically admissible, but we should consider the weight to be less. For example, the there, the judge is sort flushing out the defense argument here saying Mr. Elli was, cross-examined saying that he did not have personal knowledge about the creation of this exhibit. He acknowledge that he would not know whether this had been altered in some way. He couldn't explain the addition of the post-it notes or other pencil markings on the type Facebook don't know how those got there, but it's well settled that any flaws in the chain of custody only bear on the weight of the evidence, not on the admisibility. In other words, government exhibit 52 it's it's modified Juan. Unless he came in and he testified yeah. On the housekeeper. Yes. There was a household manual. Yes. I had to do this. Yes. I did it for 12 years. I put it by the phone every time<affirmative> and they kept calling me John anyways, and I never missed the time putting the phone book there. So he says I can identify it and I can recognize it. But when this document comes in, it's all messed up. It's not the same. It's got post-it notes on it. It's got pencil writings all over the place. It's thinner. It's a different font. Doesn't have his name on it. It's clearly a different book. It's a different document. The defense is saying, okay, well that's different. I mean that you can't, it's not a reliable document anymore. He's coming in and talking about a version that he saw. This is not the version that he saw. And so how can he be somebody who, who is talking about something that he claims to know about? He doesn't know anything about it. He wasn't there when it happened, when it was created, because it's got those pencil markings and the posted notes. It has been tampered. It has been manipulated. And therefore it should be found to be not reliable. Judge says, no, that's not the case. Any flaws, just go to the weight of the evidence. In other words, you can use those flaws to show the jurors and communicate to the jurors that this should not be believed, but it doesn't go to the admissibility. It's gonna come in. The jurors can to take a look at the pencil markings and the post-it notes. And they can say, well, it kind of makes this seem like it's weaker evidence, but that's up to them. It doesn't keep it out. It's a little bit of a, of a technical legal issue there. But judge continues says the court also overrules the objection on hearsay grounds. The directory does not constitute hearsay. It's not being offered for the truth of the names listed to identify any of the particular individuals. Second circuit has affirmed this. She gives us another example from a different second circuit case, talking about documents, being relevant, just for identification. There's another line of cases in the second circuit. And she carries on lot of case law, lot of analysis, you can see all these different she's citing cases. Okay? So this is, this is what she's doing to justify my opinion. Similarly, United States versus Le Leman. We've got tit yet. Chin second circuit. We've got another one United States versus ch another one United States versus moon, GIA United States versus Acevedo, right on and on and on and on. So she starts to wrap up, says here, ladies and gentlemen, the jury could, could conclude that based on the testimony of Juan Alessi and the black book book, I'm sorry, Juan Alessi. And the household manual that Ms. Maxwell regularly used this telephone directory from Juan's testimony and the manual. And there were various versions that were maintained over the years. The directory, the judge says is thus relevant for the non hearsay purpose that it tends to show a link between Ms. Maxwell and the names and phone numbers listed as well as how the information was organized. It is not offered to establish that any information contained within the book, such as a listed phone number is in fact accurate. A limiting instruction to that effect is appropriate. If requested by the defense, the court would also instruct the jury that it may not consider any of the handwritten markings since those were not authenticated. Okay. So we have to ask ourselves, why is this being admitted? Why is this evidence being submitted to the jurors? What are they trying to show here? Are the jurors trying to show, I'm sorry. Are the prosecutors trying to show the jurors that every name in there is a co-conspirator and that everybody in that black book is guilty? No, that's not what they're trying to show at all. If they were, that would be an improper form because just being listed in somebody's phone book, doesn't comport, doesn't equate to guilt. So we have to ask ourselves, right. That's kind of an obvious one, but why would you not be, or what would you be trying to use the evidence for the judge says the purpose, the only purpose that's really appropriate. There's two of them one, just to show that there were phone numbers listed, okay. Maxwell used the phone and there were, there was a phone book that she used and also how the information was organized. And so the jurors can come to a conclusion, whatever conclusion they want to, based on that, that's what the evidence is being submitted for. So the judge gives us a conclusion and she asks specifically for that limiting instruction, she says, okay, for the forego reasons, the court overrules, the defense objections to government exhibit 52 parties are ordered to confer, proposed limiting instructions. The further ordered that these additional exhibits, 52, a 52 D E F G N H are photocopies of exhibit 52. Those are also going to be admitted. So we've got exhibit 52 and then we've got a D E F G N H. So we've got six different like sort of sub exhibits, which are photocopies of this black book. We don't know what names are in there, but we do know the judge is gonna allow this stuff to come in. And so both parties were supposed to confer Maureen Comey, the defense they were to get together, have a conversation about this. And they did. And so they submitted a joint stipulated order saying, here's what we're talking about regarding the black book, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this black book is being offered for a limited purpose. It is not being offered for the truth of the matters asserted there in, you may not consider it for that purpose. Rather, you may consider it only to the extent you believe it is relevant to show a link, if any, between Ms. Maxwell and the names and phone numbers listed, how if at all the information was organized. All right. So maybe now you can say, yeah, it's organized, there's a, there's a massage section. Or, you know, there's a blonde section or there's a Palm beach, have a good time section or whatever. And you know, presumably a lot of those photographs are gonna have the names of the victims and their contact information because a lot of this same testimony was all of about that. Remember when we heard from the boyfriend saying that, yeah, I used to, you know, I used to sort of arrange some of this stuff. They'd call me, they'd say, is she available? I'd say, sure, she'd go over there. A lot of this was conducted through the phones. It was conducted through, you know, phone numbers and, and under this little pseudo, pseudo massage activity. So that is now going to be submitted to the jurors. And the jurors are gonna have to decide what to do with that. If you're a juror and you're sitting there and you're asking yourself, uh, okay, I'm looking at this book and there's all these redactions, you know, do you take a look at that? Does this look like you are a unorganized trafficker? Or does this just look like somebody with a phone book? If there's a massage section and in that massage section, you've got victim 1, 2, 3, and four in there. Maybe that's a little bit different, isn't it? Because we just heard from four of them saying that they were all abused during massages. And if you had a Rolodex of women to, and it was organized that way, well, the jurors may not like that too much. Will they? So they can consider it for this purpose. Well, if you just think there's a link, so the prosecutors are gonna be happy about this. Oh, if you just think there's a link between Ms. Maxwell and the names and phone numbers. Oh, that might be a good thing. Cuz if I don't know, Jane's name's in there. Kate's name's in there. Carolyn's name's in there. Annie's name's in there, which they are. I'm sure of it Or in one of these, right. We don't know if it's in the published one, but they've got all right. So you can see, so prosecutors score a victory on that, but the defense still has their entire case to present. And they're going to do that. In fact, they're supposed to start on Thursday and the us government is trying to figure out what their defense is gonna look like so that they can prepare their prosecution and their rebuttal, their response. So the prosecution now is saying, we need a little bit more information before we can jump into this Maureen Comey. And the prosecutors from the us government sent a letter on Sunday in the Galin Maxwell trial. They sent it over to judge Nathan and they said, oh judge, listen, we need an order from you. We respectfully submit this letter. We're asking the court to direct the, to provide the government with the witnesses. It anticipates calling next week by 10:00 AM. Tomorrow, December 13th, footnote one, Y uh, we have another problem here, uh, Comey and Cove. They're also noting that the defense also made an untimely production of materials on Friday evening, following the close of the government case. We're gonna try to preclude that later this evening, judge, we're just notifying you that another motion is forthcoming. It's gonna be a doozy. So they're gonna try to preclude some other evidence that was disclosed by the defense or, or some witness or some type, uh, testimony that was disclosed late on Friday. I don't know what it is cuz it's not on the docket, but we'll figure out what that is because Comey is gonna respond and try to preclude that evidence. All right. So back to this Comey saying, judge, the defense is scheduled to start their case like soon. And we need to know what order they're they're calling their witnesses in. Comey says that the government previewed for several days prior to the close of the government's case, that it would rest sometime last week, following the close of our case, the government requested the defense, provide the government with rule 26.2 material along with a list of witnesses and an order of the first witnesses the court ordered the defense to do so stating yes, you'll do that. So they're quoting the judge. Yes, you'll do that. A list of witnesses and an order of the first list sounds pretty reasonable. So Comey says, all right, so Friday evening, judge, the defense sent over a, to the government. It's attached here as exhibit a letter identifies. And we, we don't have this letter cuz this is gonna be redacted. I'm sure the letter identifies judge 35 defense witnesses in alphabetical order 35 in defense witnesses, big whopping number there. And Comey says, and they don't even tell us what order they're in 35 witnesses. And we don't even know what order they're gonna call'em in. So how are we supposed to prepare for this thing? They're just gonna pick a name out of a hat and we just gotta be prepared on every single one of these witnesses and also judge 35 of them. What are you nuts? We didn't even have 35 witnesses. Did we? We go back through it. We've got Jane, Matt, Kate, Carolyn Sean, Annie farmer is six boyfriend, seven eight mother 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 20 21, 22, 23, 24. We've got Kimberly. So maybe 24, maybe 25 total witnesses that the us government called. Some of them very short, several of them entirely transactional. Right? These people, Patrick McKee, uh, FedEx paralegal, the VD employee all entirely transactional. They were up there for five minutes, you know, 10 minutes. Maybe I look, I, I mean probably longer than that, but essentially 10 minutes in this, in the grand scheme of things, Daniel Besson talked about interlock in school of arts, right? All of these people. So the defense, we haven't even started on the defense yet. We can see that we've already identified these people just from the disclosure. This, this is who, this is who they were disclosing before the trial even started. These people. We have Ryan Hall, forensic psychiatry talked all about him. I made a whole video about, I think these guys, I think I did about these guys. Uh, we've got Burnett. Gershman he's gonna be disclosed to talk about prosecutorial integrity. Prosecutors are liars and they're all manipulating. Everything is what he's gonna say. Robert Kelso computer forensics is on the list. We don't know what order he's in. He's gonna talk about all sorts of stuff about look at his background. Let's see here. Forensic pursuit, 25 years of experience in computer forensics, John Lopez, financials and accounting. He's probably gonna rebut all of the transactionary, uh, individuals from the government side, Gerald deport, document analysis. Same thing with Jennifer, uh, NAAU. We've got Elizabeth LATI, false memories and park dates for forensic psychiatry. And that's just like, like a, a, a short smattering of the defense. So we've got, what is that? 3, 6, 8 different expert witnesses that I've just been able to glean just from the defense disclosure. Not even the, not even what they just disclosed. So there was what eight there. Yeah. So there's, there's a lot more people and they don't have any victims. This is just, just witnesses. So we don't know who else is there. And so we can take a look now back at what, uh, co uh, what Comey is talking about. We've got no information about the order government conferred with the defense about the witness order yesterday day. And they told us that there's gonna be even more information. That's gonna be forth coming. Dang it. Government has not received anything though. Accordingly judge, the government respectfully requests, the court tell the defense to provide the government by 10:00 AM tomorrow with its intended witnesses for Thursday and Friday. And that by Tuesday, December 14th, tomorrow it's full intended witness order. We wanna know how they're gonna call. We just saw they got 35 people. We need to know what order they're calling'em in such an order says Comey would be consistent with the government's disclosures. The government provided the defense with its first five witnesses on November 24th, five days before the start of trial, we told them who we were gonna be calling. And they are not telling us who they, who they're gonna be calling. And that's not fair judge. We gave them a full ordered witness list on November 27, 2 days before the start of trial. Now we saw that exhibit a, the list of all of those 35 people gonna be filed under seal, which is why we can't see it. There are also going to be from the defense people who testify with pseudonyms and visuals who are going to, uh, wanna remain anonymous. Comey also says that the government gave its disclosure materials to October ele on October 11th, more than a month before. And the defense disclosed stuff on Friday, it did not include material for many of the witnesses on her list. So they're gonna be trying to do, uh, sort of two things here trying to stop these witnesses from coming in one, because they were disclosed late. Just the fact that they were disclosed late or it's gonna be because the substance of their disclosure was not articulated thoroughly enough to justify them being called. So, so for example, we, we talked about several other witnesses and, and qualified witnesses, uh, you know, pursuant to Dober hearings and making sure that an expert witness is an actual expert witness and had a lot of those issues. The prosecution can't do that investigation of the defense experts unless they know about'em, right? Just like if you're a defendant and you're going through a criminal case, if the government is charging you with the crime, you have to know what the evidence says. You have to know what the police are saying and claiming happened. Or you have to know what's in the blood results. You have to know if they tested the drugs and what those drugs said, same concept applies for the prosecution. If the defense here, a multi million dollar defense, probably, you know, 10 to 20 million. If I had to guesstimate, they're gonna have a lot of witnesses, probably more. It sounds like than the government does. And so they're, they're sort of out maneuvering the government they're man handling the government to some degree with more witnesses. And the government's saying, we don't know what to do with all, all this, this doesn't happen often. Believe me, Bobby stern Heim now says in response, all right, judge, I'm now gonna inform the court that the defense has provided the government with a tentative order of the first several defense witnesses. I gave it to him. I don't know what they're complaining about. We have informed the government that we are still trying to make travel arrangements for defense witnesses. Many of whom are coming from locations out of the district in abroad. And we have not been able to reach counsel for some of the witnesses over the weekend. We further inform the government that the order of witnesses is subject to change. And we will advise the government. If we think the order will change as travel plan solidify. Remember the government said that they were gonna go well into January. This was supposed to be a six week trial. Nobody had any idea that they were gonna be resting after eight days of actual trial with very limited evidence being presented, kind of a shocker. So now that they rested so early now we're modifying our travel plans and we're gonna, we're gonna let you know when we get things in order. Bobby continue says, we also inform the government that three of the defense witnesses have requested to testify under their first names or under a pseudonym. The government opposes this request. Oh, well, isn't that interesting because a lot of the government witnesses to testified under their first names or pseudonyms, but now they're opposing when the defense doesn't isn't that convenient. Bobby says the court's ruling on this issue may impact the willingness of those witnesses to testify. And if they don't testify, guess what Ms. Maxwell's right to present. Her defense is compromise and it also may affect the witness order. So if you're not gonna play fair, if you're gonna let their witnesses testify under a pseudonym or under their first names, and you're not gonna let us do that. Well, guess what? Oh, it might manipulate everything. It might change everything because those witnesses may decide that they don't wanna testify. And if they don't wanna testify, well, we have to change everything up. Don't we? And if we have to change everything up, don't we, then that's gonna mean everything's out of order judge. And so this may continue on indefinitely, especially since you all are being so difficult and you're not allowing our witnesses to testify the way we want them to. So you can see how this goes. And Bobby stern Heim does this little judo maneuver. Every time somebody files something, she just flips it around into, uh, well, you're, you're violating my client's rights. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing. You know, I gotta be honest. It's pretty amazing. Uh, it's, it's pretty amazing to watch her work. And so that is the docket update in the Galin Maxwell trial. And there's gonna be a lot more I'm sure of it because we've already heard that the us government prosecutors are gonna be filing a motion to preclude a number of these 35 witnesses. They're gonna say late disclosures. The substance of the disclosures were not proper. The timing was off and on and on and on, and the defense is gonna respond. No following the rules. This is how it works. And we're gonna listen to what the judge has to say. And we've got a couple days because trial starts back up on Thursday and I hope you join us for that. We have one final segment on the show today. We're talking about Ian Maxwell. Golin Maxwell's brother kind of has some interesting thoughts on the whole did Epstein kill himself thing. And of course, I wanna make sure that you vote in on this. There is a pinned poll up there on YouTube. If you're watching the show live, let's check in on the poll. We'll see if this changes between now and the final outcome on this segment here. So we have the question that is being asked. Did Epstein kill himself? Was he killed? Is he still alive? Or I don't know. And as it stands, we have 61% that are chiming in Epstein was killed. Oh my goodness. Out of 137 responses, 84 votes, 60% saying he was killed. We got 23% saying he's still alive up to 24%. We have a, a good 5%. Not real sure about it. And 10% are saying that he in fact killed himself. So, uh, 10% saying story sounds about right, full 62% say he was killed and we've got a 25% say that he's actually still alive. They just wielded him out of there. Uh, maybe it was sort of a Maad operation or something to that effect. Now what's very interesting about this. Of course, Maxwell knew Jeffrey Epstein very well. They were, uh, engaged in a lot of activities together for a long period of time stuff. That's, you know, really, really, you know, out there. So these people were, were close. They did everything together. We heard from a lot of different individuals that they were basically inseparable. So if anybody knows Epstein and whether he's going to, uh, kill himself, probably Maxwell, right. And Ian Maxwell's brother was giving an interview and he had some pretty interesting thoughts on this whole thing. And so we're gonna ask him specifically, do you think Epstein killed himself? Does go think Epstein killed himself? And if Epstein didn't kill himself and somebody else killed him and he's not still alive, who do you think did it, Ian? Was it the Maad we've got a lot to get into, but before we do, let's start with, why are people interested in the Maxwell case anyways? Is it because it's people are bored? It's COVID, that's it? No, that's what he says here. It is well finger in

Speaker 2: 59:32

What it is. Well, I think it also of course has a Royal ingredient. Just a complete that, uh, yeah. Pack of carbs.<laugh> if you want. And uh, you know, we, we are coming through a, this we're still in the midst of this COVID situation and it's, it's just something else to keep people

Speaker 1: 59:51

Interested. Oh yeah. People are just bored. I mean,

Speaker 2: 59:53

I think the money really isn't the base of it because we now know that something like 120 million has been paid to something like 120 girls accusers by the Jeffrey Epstein state on that basis. It is likely that, uh, their legal teams will have collected something like 60 million whoa basis of the no win, no for type percentages. So I think there's been a real interest to drive this by the lawyers. It was given a

Speaker 1: 1:00:32

Yeah. So you see what he's saying? He, he he's basically blaming it on COVID oh, it's a Royal, you know, it's his little hint of royalty, you know, prince Andrew and all that stuff. It's just the standard intrigue know, people are just interested in the fact cuz it's COVID, you know, they've run outta stuff on Netflix. They're tired of Hulu, HBO, you know, succession just ended last night. What else are they gonna do? And so they just tune into channels like this one, because I guess we're just like covering tabloid news. You know, it's just like, this is like us weekly or something where we're talking about the Kardashians. Congratulations on passing the bar exam. Well done. It's so she's going to, uh, um, or he's going to just sort of, you know, sort of poo this whole thing, not even a big deal, has nothing to do with the fact that it involved the global elite, that this happened for decades, that this, these are all of the people that are sort of, uh, you know, self-appointed overlords of society, the billionaires, the hundred millionaires, the people who own islands, who rule countries who operate the biggest businesses in the world who are part of the operational structure of the globe involved in international trafficking of children. Could it be that? And we're all sick of it. We're all disgusted by it. We wanna make sure that there's justice done. Yeah. That's my interest in it. I mean, that's why I'm so interested in it.<laugh> but he's gonna say it's COVID and everybody's bored. Okay. So, uh, of course he has to say that because he doesn't want to, uh, reveal the truth that this is, uh, you know, evil on a, on a level that we've never seen before really. And, uh, that's why people are interested in it. Okay. So he continues on his, his point though, was interesting about those lawyers specifically talking about 120 girls were paid 125 million. We've heard from several of the victims in this case that many of them were paid multimillion dollars. I think that Jan or Jane got like what, 5 million after taxes, 2.9, uncle Sam has to take their cut. Of course. So that was the situation. Lawyers are gonna be taking a big portion of that, right? Uncle Sam takes their cut portion of that 5 million bucks that goes to the lawyers. What do you, nuts lawyers gotta get paid, baby. We gotta eat. I don't practice that type of law by of the way. So all these contingency fees, right? If, if a lawyer wins, they get paid. And so now you've got all of these frothy lawyers foaming at the mouth, salivating over million dollar payouts from the Epstein compensation fund. You get a nice woman who comes in, says, yeah, no. I mean, I, I went to his island one time. Did he, did he look at you? He did actually. Were you raped? Uh, probably. All right, great. I see 5 million price tag attached to your story. Let's go file. A claim. Lawyers are gonna take, you know, 40% of that when it settles. That's a lot of money out of 125 million bucks paid out by the victim compensation fund, a whopping 40% of that for law firms. Yeah. That's gonna motivate a lot of lawyers to do it. So he's blaming the lawyers. What else is new? We can take it. He carries on though. And he's talking about the us government and specifically this woman who, uh, kind of went out and gave this, uh, ranting, uh, you know, press conference. He's very upset about her when this whole thing started, uh, us versus Maxwell. Of course she was, you know, prosecuted back in 2000 and, uh, 20 here he is and

Speaker 2: 1:03:40

Enormous kick by the us government when it ran, uh, through its, uh, attorney in the Southern district of New York, a quite egregious, uh, press conference on the day, my sister was arrested, pointing to pictures of her with, uh, Jeffrey Epstein and saying, in terms she is guilty. She is guilty of these crime. She's a monster she's slithered away to some fancy, uh, a boat in New Hampshire and so on. It was really shocking and everybody piles in them behind it. And then you have these, uh, enormously, uh, powerful films that were run by Netflix, amongst others, Netflix that keep this whole gay aim going. And of course the accusers and the lawyers take, uh, front stage stage, come at the front of these pictures. And it's still going on in my view, completely wrongly where there are perhaps 3, 4, 5, half a dozen, uh, non-testing users of my sister on the networks this week with their allegations and their uncorroborated, uh, statements, which are deeply, deeply, uh, prejudicial. And it's completely wrong that this can be allowed to be going on in the midst of a trial. It wouldn't happen in England,

Speaker 1: 1:05:02

Says it wouldn't happen in England. It's like, Hey, man, that happens all over the place here. Uh, we have people all over the media, dunking on people being charged with crimes all across this country. I mean, Kyle written house didn't get any favors in the media. Derek Chauvin got no favors in the media. Now he's talking specifically about, you know, women out there who are not a part of the criminal charges making allegations of criminality on a regular basis. And so if you're gonna be sitting there sort of defending, you know, somebody like Kyle written house or Derek Chauvin against the presumptions being imputed to them in the media, you kind of gotta do the same thing with max with all right. And I've gotten a lot of crap for that from a lot of people. When I say, look, it's still the presumption of innocence, no matter what Glen did or what Jeffrey Epstein did. Like these people still deserve the presumption of innocence, because if you cross that line with them and you say, it's okay to do it for them, it just, the, the line just keeps moving. And then it ends up that your son who's being accused of heinous crime has no more lines, no boundaries to protect him or her. And so you gotta be very careful when you sort of just say, well, we're just gonna lock him up and throw away the key without any due process or the presumption of innocence. And part of that, of course, is in the court of public opinion. That's why these courts are, you know, doing what they can to protect these trials from outside influence. And we haven't heard much of that here, right? But this is a as if not more high profile than a lot of the other cases that we've covered, this case has been, uh, percolating for 10 DEC for two decades, at least. So it, it, it, you know, it, it does require to, to support Ian's point. It does require right. Some consider of how this is being talked about in the court of public opinion. Even for Maxwell, I know it makes me sick to even say it, but it's true. Right? So we've got here, we have a, another clip from him. Now, this is where we get into some of the juicy and the good stuff we've got. Uh, Glen, no, this is Ian Maxwell. Glen's brother. Who's gonna be talking of about the conspiracy theory. All right. Now, so Jeffrey Epstein, he was in prison. The question is, did he kill himself? What do you think? Is this a conspiracy? Or is this just a screw up? And he's gonna use a very English word, which I, when I first heard it, it sort of made my eyebrows go, huh? What is that? I guess, I think I know what that I thought it was an offensive word. Kind of, I don't know. You'll have to tell me. I think we have some more people listening in from the UK lately, since we've been talking about, uh, but<laugh> let me know. Is this a, is this, is this a common phrase over there? Here's what he says

Speaker 2: 1:07:33

Between, uh, conspiracy theories and cockup theories. I'm a cockup man. And I always have been, I, I think conspiracy is, are really difficult to Mount. I think they are complex ideas. What is a conspiracy? It's a meeting of minds. That's the fundamental idea behind a conspiracy, certainly in the law. And, um, it's, therefore, you've got to imagine how these things can possibly happen. People have to sit around and talk and agree and plan and so on. That's not my experience of life. So I don't buy a lot of the conspiracy theories at all. It so happens. One of the conspiracy theories is, uh, about my father that he was murdered rather than committed suicide or had an accident of all of my siblings. Gillan is the only one who happens to believe that he was murdered. He was murdered. And I would, uh, venture to believe that she may also think that Epstein was murdered. Ooh,

Speaker 1: 1:08:32

I may also venture to believe that she also believes that Epstein was murdered and yeah, there's some people in the, uh, uh, shout out, shout out from the UK over there. Marilyn Hughes says, yeah, it means messed up. Yeah. All right. So a lot of people chiming in from the UK. Thank you for the, uh, the understanding<laugh> all right. And so, but you heard what he said, uhoh I venture to say that I think Maxwell thinks that Epstein was murdered and Maxwell knew him pretty well. They did a lot of stuff together, a lot of pretty bad stuff together. And so, you know, you have to imagine that they had a pretty close bond and she'd ever thought that he was suicidal. She thinks that maybe he was killed if he, if he was killed or who did this, or what was she a part of? Was she a part of some international cabal? Is there a satanic ring of, uh, people who are trafficking and, you know, underage individual what's going on out there in the world? Was it the Maad as a lot of people have speculated, not according to Ian, get that outta your skulls. So I,

Speaker 2: 1:09:36

Those are conspiracy theories that have got some, you, you might be able to stand them up to an extent, but it's so long ago in the case of my father and I, but probably all, any such evidence has gone out of the door. And we don't know about Epstein, uh, as for, uh, involvement with say the MOSAD in the case of, uh, uh, Gillen and or Epstein himself. I don't buy that. I haven't seen any evidence for it. No evidence, nothing has been advanced, but we live in a world, which is where conspiracy is currency. And you can see that social media is fueled with endless conspiracies and fake, deep, fake imagery and deep, fake text and so on. And you, you've just gotta be adept at deciding what you're gonna take and what you're not gonna take. So I happen to think that, uh, most of it is Cobbs and Cobbs, you know, that's what I think. What

Speaker 1: 1:10:31

Do you think<laugh> okay. So, uh, learned a lot of new language here today, but everybody's just blurs also as well. Definitely not the Maad never seen any evidence of that. Jeffrey, Epstein's just this sort of weird shadow figure that inherited, you know, or stole, uh, hundreds of millions of dollars kind of turned that into more money. And then, uh, apparently was the centerpiece of a global ring of something or other, I don't know if that's the Maad or if that's any intelligence agency or if it's just a big evil, uh, layer of individuals. But Ian Maxwell says definitely not the Maad and, uh, who can argue with that. So we have one final comment from him. Was he killed Epstein? Was he killed or did he kill himself? And if he didn't kill himself and he was killed, who did it, you mind answering that for us here, Maxwell, this is over from the spectator podcast was killed

Speaker 2: 1:11:24

By somebody who do you think it would've been, uh, or who was behind it? No, I'm perfectly happy to answer that. I, I do happen. Think my sister does think that he was killed I'm content to myself to, to rely on, uh, a suicide, but you know, it doesn't really matter. The man's dead. Your second question, it does matter would have, uh, killed him. Yeah. It's an open matter. One of the whole set of conspiracy theories and allegations about this whole case is that there are other men who have been involved and were, uh, also, uh, uh, basically involved in criminal activities with underage girls. Yes. Although that's never been proved, there's a famous case coming up, uh, between Alan DWIs, uh, the well known American lawyer and Virginia JRE. Who's also the accuser of my sister and of prince Andrew. So we're gonna see, that's gonna be tested, uh, right. Uh, in the coming months next year. I don't know who would've not Jeffrey Epstein off.

Speaker 1: 1:12:32

I don't know who would've not Jeff re Epstein office. Good question. Lot of, lot of, you know, potential answers to that question there, but you know, it doesn't really matter one way or the other. It's kinda like Hillary Clinton at this point. What difference does it make? How Benghazi happen? Remember that whole clip doesn't matter how Epstein was killed. If it was a, uh, uh, a foreign government intelligence agency that did it well, whatever, if he killed himself, whatever, it's not a big deal. If somebody else snuck into a federal prison, a secured prison guards were asleep. Cameras were turned off the whole thing. And I went down and he got murdered taken out by somebody, not a big deal. Doesn't matter. He is dead. What's done is done. Can we just let by guns be by guns? Uh, so he doesn't have any idea who did it<laugh>, but he's not the Maad and Maxwell, as we know, doesn't think he was murdered, probably the, the only person on this planet who knows Epstein better than anybody doesn't think he was murdered. I'm sorry. Thinks he was murdered. Doesn't think he committed suicide cuz she knows him. Well, he wouldn't do such a thing.<laugh> all right. So this case just gets weirder and weirder. Let's see what you have to say about this over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. And we had a couple nice donations come in via super chat. So I wanna give some thank yous to Marzi pan over there with a, uh, donation on YouTube. Thank you for that Marzi. I threw that back up there. We got DRC garage says, what are the chances of the Clintons going down for their involvement? Uh, probably zero. I don't think any, you saw what the government came out with. They got eight, eight days, eight days of trial<laugh> with like 26 witnesses or whatever we just counted up here. So, you know, it's kind of like a joke. One of the biggest, uh, most comprehensive global inter interconnected trafficking case. My, the mind map that we've created here, you know, I, I could run a trial for six months on this mind map.<laugh> they, they, they got it for eight days. All right. So no, I don't think anybody's going down. This whole thing is, uh, is just being orchestrated perfectly right? Glen will probably get convicted. There'll be a, a bunch of fanfare about it. Oh, she got convicted. Finally, this whole saga can come to a close. She's gonna get, you know, sentence probably, you know, kind of a, a moderate sentence. She'll go up on appeals. She'll be exonerated on appeal. She should have been included in that non prosecution agreement. She shouldn't really ever re prosecuted anyways, because of some corrupt, uh, government bureaucrat prosecutor authorized the 2000 thousand and seven non prosecution agreement in the first place. And so this whole thing is just a big, it's kind of just a big show. And as we know, the defense is gonna come out with more witnesses than the government even presented. So it's just, uh, it's just laughable as hell. Uh, no, I don't think anything's gonna happen from the Clintons Mar Z pan with another donation. Thank you, Marsy. That's two from you today. Very generous. And then Tracy Griffin of course, with another nice donation. Thank you for that, Tracy. All right. And so we're gonna check back in over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com before we do okay. Let's do an update here. We've got 264 responses in here. Say 62% saying Epstein was killed. We're up to 25%. Say he's still alive. Only 8% say that he actually did kill himself. If you haven't voted yet, it is pinned up on the YouTube chat. But, uh, yeah. Yeah, he was killed 62%. So the majority of people finding that Epstein killed himself. All right. And let's see what we've got for the questions here. Looks like we've got a little bit of a full, full docket. Yes, we've got, uh, chip Vaughn shoulder is here. It says funny how he mentioned the book about reading in Charlotte bill and then our zoom meeting got corrupted. Let me tell you about this with a larger audience. The book about Charlottesville explains in detail. What led up to the historical event book is titled sh Charlottesville and told inside unite the rights by Anne Wilson Smith,$5 ebook for anyone who is interested in knowing the facts about Charlottesville, highly recommended that higher power. Sure. Works fast, Rob. Thanks Rob. That's from chip VA shoulder. Yeah. And chip Vaughn's shoulder was there at our monthly meetup on Saturday and it was, uh, a good time. He was talking about sort of, you know, his, his takeaways from being a part of the community. And I appreciated that chip. We have monster one says, did you watch any of the Kim Potter trial? They basically spent the whole day establishing that Kim shot Wright, which is obvious just another day of west wasted testimony. Seems like they're trying to convict based on the length of the trial and not the actual event. They want the jury saying they had that. All the testimony that she must be guilty. Hopefully the jury doesn't all for their tricks. No, I have not watched, uh, any of the Kim Potter trial. Uh, unfortunately I'm just sort of focused on Glen at the moment we have another one says, Rob, I hope you're doing well. Just wanna let you know that the circle in Epstein's photo is a helicopter landing place. Usual where we live in Uruguay as well, best wishes. Oh. So it's not a human sacrifice location for, uh, for the blood avers. That's good. Thank you for clarifying. Good to see you. Miss Danny, we have monster. One says you ever watch Luke Rud Kosky from, we are char change. He snuck onto Epstein island. We change on YouTube. If anyone wants to check it out. No, I have not. I don't think I've seen that. He snuck onto the island. I don't see. Yeah. Why not? It's pretty close to, uh, a lot of the other islands, I guess you could just get a boat and go over there. Kinkaid says, uh, evening. Good sir. Question. Since the legal system decides what is considered factor, not how do professionals rationalize the curation? Nothing is Absolut loop, but leaving out key evidence seems typical. Is there an independent quote agency that can genuinely challenge the absurdity of it all? Lastly, I'm impressed with Hillary and bill having enough energy to finish and packing on the island and still make time for the media events. Faking emotions is rough on demon spawn. That's from Kincaid. Well, no, I mean, that's sort of the whole part of lawyering. You know, lawyers have different interpretations of reality and we fight about that. That's why you have lawyers who go do those things. You know, there's not gonna be an agency. You know, for most like there are, there are certain things that lawyers will agree upon, you know, certain stipulations and you know, that will go to different formulas and things that we use to analyze complex issues. But generally speaking, no, I mean, that's why you hire lawyers, right? It it's it's to fight over the interpretation of reality. Really here go's lawyers are saying all of these women testifying or liars money, memory, and manipulation, they don't remember anything. They've all been manipulated by the government to come out and go against Golin Maxwell because they didn't get Epstein and money. They've all been paid off on all of this. They're all doing this for money. They have improper in, you know, in, in, in pure motives for any of this. And so the prosecution is gonna say the opposite of that notes. Not none of that's true. That's a, that's a perversion of reality. The reality here is these are victims of horrendous crimes. They have been abused in unimaginable ways and they deserve justice here. And that is the form of having the abusers being punished indefinitely with, you know, 35 years in prison, whatever they ask for. So that's why you have lawyers. You know, there's not gonna be an agency that goes out there and just sort of details what some of these, uh, concerns are. Uh, guess number eight is here, says quit trying to expose me, Rob. Let's see if they're over on the mind map. Who's there who's is person. Oh, guest number nine is here busted. So if you are a supporter@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com, then you can get access to all this mind map and navigate it at your leisure. We also have, that was from guest number eight. Let's see who else we have guest number nine. We just outed thunder seven says I remember bill Richardson, the former governor of New Mexico. He was named I by Virginia. Yeah, by Virginia Jeffrey, as one of the men, she was pimped out to by Maxwell. He must have helped Epstein buy the Zoro ranch. Maybe gates can buy it. As he's buying up millions of acres of farmland. He can be invited. He invited the Clintons to stay at their old guest house. The rest of the game can have a reunion. Yuck. The ghosts that must haunt that ranch of all the miners and everybody abused. There would be disgusting. Wouldn't even wanna step foot in that place or any of their homes. Yeah. Yeah. 27 million for all of that. Uh, bad energy and bad karma and awfulness. No Kincaid says, Hmm. A watering hole. I didn't hear Epstein was a furry either must have left out those outfits. Robes hide much.<laugh> okay. Thunder seven says, uh, the black book is irrelevant. I agree with the defense anyone's name can be in there. Doesn't prove anything. Not all people they associated with were perverts and not every name in the book means that they had contact with them. It's the photos, the videotapes that tell the real horror. And I can't believe the pilots and the staff haven't been charged with accessory to trafficking and other crimes. I'm talking about the ranch and island too. Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question. Thunder seven. I mean, there is, there are tentacles of this thing that go everywhere and there're just sort, they just want she's the person, that's it. Everything else forget about it. Doesn't matter. Not important only. And as soon as Glenn's convicted, we're just gonna put a nice little bow on that. Wrap it up, give that present to the American people. Look, we convicted of a, a monster. Everybody's gonna go. Yeah. Great. And guess what? Never gonna get to the bottom. It, the people who are really responsible for it never gonna be uncovered. And uh, we're just gonna continue to watch this, uh, disgusting perversion happen throughout our society. Monster one says, I figured it out. Hell no. Hutchins was an alias for Epstein victim and witness protection Epstein called Baldwin from his hideout, told him to take care of it. Baldwin took care of it. It all comes for full circle. Alec Baldwin got activated for Jeffrey Epstein who is still alive. Cuz Gill Maxwell says that he wouldn't kill himself. Monster one says the government will redact every name except Donald trumps, which is true. They've been doing everything they can to smear him. Kinkaid says I find it interesting how evil masterminds are always so methodical about paperwork, all those phone books and no mention of menus or room risk. There was a joke about Alec, but not shooting blanks. But uh, thank you for all the new channel features and content. Well, you're welcome there. Kinkaid. Thanks for being a part of the program and being a part of the show. Couple more monster. One says if I was the defense, I would say the witnesses are in order alphabetical order. Dumies here. Do you in reverse alphabetical? Cuz I can just press that sort button and flip it right around for you here. Maureen, would you like that? I'll send it over here in immediate. All right. We've got another one. Monster. One says the trial is gonna be six weeks of the defense, which could be Sergeant Bob says, did Epstein get killed? He was connected. Slick. Willie Clinton, as many other deceased people were enough said<laugh> that's true. Clinton sort of have a wake everywhere they go. Kincaid says the brother said Royal ingredient. What a banana taking out the sting Nara. That's from Kincaid. We have outnumbered. Mom says if she rules, the defense witnesses can testify under fake names. I hope the state outs every single one of them like the defense did to their victims. What's good for the goose. It's a good point. There outnumbered mom. You're right about that. Cuz the defense did that. Remember Jeff PA Yuca, the G is silent like lasagna. He, I think twice he got admonished by the judge one time and then later on he just said it. Nobody said anything and the reporters, uh, inter inner city press and I think it was uh, Adam CLA field. They said nobody even noticed it. The judge didn't notice it. The prosecution didn't notice it. And he did it again. So yeah, if it slips when the government does it, can't be too upset about that. We have Chris Wooley's here says, Hey Rob, speaking of money, it would be interesting to see the details about who paid that bloke to do that interview and imply the victims are all about the money. Recompense for damages to crime victims are paid in money. That's how the system works. I'm sure there are also finance incentives behind his outlook on the matter. Yeah. Yep. He's you're exactly right about that. Chris, what, what do you expect? How is he going to compensate these victims who are abused by Epstein and Glenn Maxwell for, you know, I don't several years money. You can't it, you know, it is not like the what's good for the goose. It it is. But it's sort of what you can't, you can't allow these victims to go and get any other type of recompense. It has to be money that's from Chris Ney. Ugh. Good to see you. Chris. Sergeant Bob says research shows people, hearing a British accent rate to be is more intelligent than they would otherwise. Interesting bit of rubbish fact<laugh> that's what Sergeant Bob C says, give that sweet contingency fee confirmed in writing for the Epstein victims' compensation fund and the tabloids can point fingers at me and other lawyers. All they want. I'd be so far gone. Not even the Clintons could find me. Yeah. You just, yeah. It's good money. Yeah. A 40% is six, 5 million bucks. It's good money. Jack Eli says who would knock off Epstein? How many intelligence agencies are there on the planet? There is your suspect list. You can start right there. Everybody would want him dead. Yeah. So just start at the top. Kiss prime is here, says, wait, am I getting this right? Is Ian saying that he doesn't think a lot of conspiracies are real because he doesn't spend a lot of time on them? Or did I hear him wrong? Realistically, all many re uh, rich people really do is sit around and conspire. Then they pay people off<laugh> and they do a lot of it behind closed doors and are outta public view. You have things like builder, Berg and whatnot. It it's literally the definition of what conspiracy is regardless of the connotation. However, most people, people are typically ready to advantage themselves at the expense of others. So why should they be any different for people who don't think there's anything going on against the public interest by the ultra wealthy? Uh, let me just point out that such an idea goes against basic human psychology. Also let's just take a moment to acknowledge that they make all these nefarious machinations explicit. Just saying, yeah, it's a good point. VI, you don't have to speculate too much about it. I mean, they're sort of telling you what they want to do everywhere you look. I'm glad that you're here. We have V kiss says Rodowski video. So I'll take a look at that. I'll bookmark that one V kiss. Thank you. One says speaking of not living in reality, did you see the binger interview, complete BS the whole way through? You should check it out for tomorrow's show. I didn't. I saw that Nick RADA, actually, I think he did a realtime reaction. Maybe I'll watch that one. I can't listen. I've listened to Thomas binger enough. I can't do it anymore. I've had enough of him. You wanna listen to what? He maybe I'll read it. John Hallin is here. Not one says, do you feel 35 witnesses are excessive after the government trotted out 25? Just curious. Also it was the Russians who got Epstein. They did it over a zoom meeting. Yeah. John, I know we got hacked by the Russians this weekend. Rough rough one. But uh, we made it, you know, cause we're resilient as hell over here. 35 witnesses. Yeah. Excessive over the government's 25. Yeah, definitely. But that's how this works. It's it's, it's like a scale. You have to present evidence. If you don't present any evidence, then you're just sitting there saying I what? They, said's not true. And it's not a good defense. Right? Some, some people will, will just so we don't need any expert witnesses. We don't need any defense experts or anything like that. Well, if, if their experts says that you did something wrong and you don't have an expert to say, no, I didn't. Who is at, at advantage there. So here what the defense is doing is saying that's great. 25 witnesses. Wow. Okay. We're gonna bring 35. If they would've brought 35 witnesses out, they said it's a lot of witnesses. Okay. We're gonna bring 45. And if they would've said, we're gonna bring 55 65 witnesses for the defense more or less because it's, it's going to be outweighing the other side. It's really as simple as that. And it, you know, it's, uh, I, I think it's, it's, it's something powerful if you can afford it and you can have a legal team, that's going to be able that again, Glenn's case is I, I think roughly the numbers that she has set aside, that the courts have allowed her to set aside as something like 6.8 million for her defense. Okay. And, and that's probably just the tip of it, right? Her, her family has millions of dollars. She comes from, you know, basically royalty. They've got money, stashed away all over the play. So the court said, you can use 6.8 of your money to do this, but they're probably spending another 10 just from family money. VICA says, Viva's here. Shout out to Viva Viva's here. He submitted a super chat over there. Shout out to Viva. A wild Canadian has appeared in the chat. Viva is a wild Canadian. It's true. I know Viva a little bit wild man out there. He says, you're doing amazing work, Rob, God speed. And keep it up. Also eternal truth. Number one, love it. Thank you for that Viva. Thanks for swinging by and saying hello, everybody. Viva has an amazing channel. He's been a great friend and somebody who's been, you know, uh, somebody I can talk to when I'm looking for some thoughts and advice and some help. And so go support him in his channel. He's also our neighbor@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. He's right next door at Viva Barnes, law.locals.com. So go say hello to Viva. And of course support them. We got a really sort of great group of people here in VI is, you know, right at the center of it. So thank you Viva for swinging by shout out to Viva our wild Canadian. All right. And I think we've got a couple of other questions here before we wrap it up. News now says I'm still not sure on that non prosecution agreement. She wasn't a party to it. Her rights aren't violated by it Epstein probably if she testified under that, I would say otherwise Cosby was very different because he testified with his agreement. He gave up his own fifth amendment. Then they used his statements against him. That's true. Right. That is true. So, so Cosby sort of had a little bit, uh, you would call that prejudice, right? As a result of that agreement, he, he gave something or you could call it consideration, right. He gave something an for that Maxwell didn't really give anything for that. Right. But did Sarah ke did, did any of the other people as part of the non prosecution agreement? So in other words here, here's where I have a, a little bit of a, of a question about that news. Now, maybe your thoughts will, uh, flesh this out for me a little bit, but as part of this non prosecution agreement, remember that we had these four women who were all essentially, co-conspirators like, like literally, like we know that Sarah ke was involved in setting up massages, same thing with Nadia. And they're named here as co-conspirators in this document, if Gill Maxwell was doing those same things, why did they exclude her? Was it known that she was excluded? And if so, wouldn't that be written in this document? Because they didn't write that. In fact, they said it will not Institute any criminal charges against even any potential co-conspirators of Epstein. So how does that not include Glenn? Now I look, I agree with you that this, this document is insane like that, that the government would create this document is lunacy. They're gonna give Epstein a blanket. I'm sorry. All of Epstein's, co-conspirators a blanket liability against any criminal charges. That's nuts, but this is the government and they put it forward and I would consider and Maxwell to be a potential co-conspirator in fact, she's being charged with a crime for what conspiracy<laugh>. I mean, it's right here. She's actually being charged with that conspiracy to traffic. Okay. So she, she is a potential co-conspirator. And so if the, if the idea is that you can't prosecute these gals, Nadia, Leslie GRA, who is, you know, his right. I think his actual assistant for a long period of time, his executive assistant for 20 years. So if she is protected by that, did she give anything up in exchange for that protection? Because Maxwell could make the same argument, you know, she didn't give up anything. So why wouldn't she be included in that? It's interesting. I don't know. Obviously, you know, I don't do much appellate work. I, I, we, we do appellate work here. I don't personally do it, but, um, we'll see where that one goes. We have a couple other questions here. Zero says may or maybe I'll practice criminal defense and make that$20 million go Maxwell money. Criminal defense is the way to go, well, look, look, I'm not getting 20 million for representing anybody. You know, this is, um, criminal defense is not, if you wanna make a ton of money, criminal defense is not generally the area you want to go because you know, our practice, we're not representing go Maxwell. You know, we're representing, uh, a school teacher who know, got into a fight with his significant other, something like that. You know? So we charge competitive rates. It is expensive, hiring a lawyer's expensive, but you know, we're not making 20 million, you know, cases. Now there are lawyers who can sort of work their way up and sort of demand that, but that takes you like, you know, Bobby stern, Heim, how old is she? She probably 60, 70 years old. So she can charge three, you know, 3000 bucks an hour because she's been doing it for 40 years. Whereas, you know, a first year criminal defense attorney, you know, you're not, you're not coming out, making six figures right out of the gates. So you have to sort of work your way up into that. It's a very rewarding field. You know, we, we work with people, you get to help people. You get to work with a lot of good people. Yes. They've been charged with crimes, but everybody, he makes mistakes. We've all been there. You, you know, we've all probably engaged in criminal conduct, whether we've been charged with a crime is a different story. But I, you know, most of us, uh, myself included have engaged in criminal conduct at one time or another, just haven't been caught. So some people get caught and it's a mistake and they just, you know, they make up for it. And so it's a very rewarding practice. It's a lot of fun. I mean, we get, you know, interesting stories and we get to deal with people all the time and it it's very rewarding, but, you know, unless you've been doing it for 40, 50, 60 years, you don't get to go in and demand, you know, 20, 20 million legal fees, uh, nor do these cases pop up, you know, where somebody has 20 million or their, uh, going to, to do if you want. I mean, really, if you want to, if you wanna, you know, make a lot of money in law, the, the, the people law is probably not the best place to be family law people based. Right. Uh, trust in estates, often pay people based, but a lot more transactional. You've got criminal law, same thing. It's, it's very, it's very people versus, you know, like drafting contracts or I'm sorry. Um, well, okay. Enough of this topic, so, all right, great question. We have somebody with, no name says your zoom meeting was good while it lasted on Saturday. My first one also good to hear from folks I've only heard in a pseudonym or seen in the comments. Yeah. We had to wrap it up early, but for the, for the time that we did hang out, it was a lot of fun. Sergeant Bob says, miss lucky is a more wild Canadian Sergeant, Bob, miss lucky. What are you two getting into over there? Sergeant Bob says, miss lucky is a wild Canadian live on YouTube. My goodness. You two. And you're in Arizona now. So YouTube behave yourselves out there in Chino valley.<laugh> oh, I'm so glad that you're here and you tolerate me. All right. We have another one from monster. One says you just got to use my cousin, Vinny defense, stand up point at the prosecution and say everything that guy said is BS. It's a good one. Um, probably wouldn't be that effective in court, but would be a lot of fun. VCA says, all right, just a little bit more on the whole conspiracy aspect. Sometimes the best place to hide something is right in front of people's faces. About 20 years ago, I met this guy who was dealing the funny plant. His mother asked, I see you got a new car and a new stereo and all this stuff, where'd you get that money? He responded, mom, I sell drugs. She waved them off and said, oh, stop.<laugh>. You know, I, I, I used to do that, but I didn't actually go and do the selling of the drugs. You know, my mom would say, what are you guys doing tonight? You know, dealing drugs, smoking, crack, doing weed, you know, illegal things. What do you think we're doing? We're in middle school. We're going out on our bikes tonight. What do you think we're doing? We're gonna be vandalizing things and breaking the law at least until two in the morning. So sorry. My poor mother, she had three boys, uh, you know, and she's an angel. Okay. Couple more questions before we get up news now says if they have the evidence against the others beyond a reasonable doubt, I would expect charges against the co-conspirators news. Now, I'm not sure I agree with that, but we'll see, monster one says, this is a different case than what they had than, than what they had the non prosecution agreement for once Epstein committed new crimes, that deal went byebye. That's how he got arrested, unless the agreement was included crimes. That didn't happen yet. And I doubt that well, that that plea agreement was from 2007. And aren't all these crimes charged before 2007. I mean, he got raided in 2019, but does the, do any of the victims go outside of the 2007 window? I should know that off the top of my head, but I do not, but it's a good question, right? I think that I, my, my, my read was the 2007 non prosecution agreement was after all of these other allegations. Right. We're talking about the nineties with many of these Palm beach and all of that. Now a lot of the, the stuff came out after the fact after the New York raid, which I think was in 2019, but still the victims that are testifying here. And now today were back from before. I think before 2007, I could be wrong about that, but I'm not sure. Uh, Chris Wooley says, Rob, I forgot to mention my name in the last comment I was on the zoom and forgot my ugly sweater. Uh, what did I do with my ugly sweater? Did I put it back already? I might have put it back already. Dang it. Right. So, uh, that was it from Chris wing and our friends over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. And we have one more super chat that came in over from Jason Jones says, what do you think about Julian? Asange? So I'm not sure in what context, but I think what's happened to him has been horrendous. You know, I think that people who are whistle blows and who, uh, speak truth to power and who reveal the horrendous activities of the bureaucrats, who think that they're, you know, infallible are heroes, but people like Asange and snow, and those people who really show us what's happening behind the scenes are heroes. And I think that they should be afforded due process and they should be afforded the presumption of innocence and they should be treated with humanity and dignity and respect. And he is not, and its offensive as hell to me. And so I'm very curious to see what happens when he does get extradited back to the us and we'll continue to cover that case as well. So we're gonna dig into Julian Asange and a lot more. I, I hope that you are a part of that when we continue to do so before we get outta here, wanna welcome some new people over to our community@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com shoutouts to cookie monster too is now in the house. Welcome cookie monster. We have AJ DHA is here. We have Molly pop Inc. Signed up. We've got guitar Terry in the house. Randy J 98. We got Westworld is here. Equestrian girl, Richie DC, red Jersey, Nicky dragon is here, things and stuff. We've got Donna 1 0 7 Theves is now a part of our group. Jimmy w is here. Big P tether bites. We've got Kimmy cat oh three, Kevin AZ. Antar 24 queen of Tennessee re E Lee is here. We've got music box lady, big re fan as Gloria Black cat Meow. Nick McCloud. Dr. Brenton T Blake Moore, Patriot minute J Markie Cantonese Broon 96 squirrel. Oh oh five. Oh. And pal, if you wanna join our community over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com five bucks a month, 50 bucks annually, lot of good stuff over there. I've got a free PDF copy of my book. It's called getting to winning all the mind maps are over there. We put the slides there on a daily basis. We have monthly meetups. We do live streams with exclusive content a couple times during the week when I can squeeze'em in. And there's a lot of great people over there. And so we appreciate your support. Check us out@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com and that my friends is it for me for the day. I wanna thank you for being here and being a part of the show. And I wanna make sure that you're back here to do it again tomorrow. We're gonna do it all again. 4:00 PM, Arizona time, 5:00 PM, central and Texas time, 6:00 PM on the east coast. And for that one, Florida man, everybody else have a tremendous evening sleep very well. I'll see you right back here.<affirmative> tomorrow. Bye bye. Oh, one final thing. Shout out, forgot to mention, uh, to all of our friends in Kentucky and everybody devastated by that. I forgot to mention that at the start of the show, I've been watching the footage on, uh, what's happening out of there. And so my thoughts and prayers and all the love to everybody who's been impacted by that. And so, uh, if you have any, any extra love to send their way, please do that. That my friends is it for me for the day. I will see everybody here tomorrow. Sleep very well. My friends. Bye bye.