Watching the Watchers with Robert Gruler Esq.

Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Day 9 & 10: Annie Farmer Testifies and Prosecutors Rest!​

December 12, 2021 Robert Gruler Esq.
Watching the Watchers with Robert Gruler Esq.
Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Day 9 & 10: Annie Farmer Testifies and Prosecutors Rest!​
Show Notes Transcript

Government Prosecutors rest their case after two weeks of trial leaving many scratching their heads. We cover days 9 and 10 of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial, including:​

🔹 Day 9: Maxwell trial is abruptly cut short as a lawyer in the case falls ill.​
🔹 Review of the SDNY Prosecutor’s Office statement regarding the illness.​
🔹 Review of Judge Alison’s courtroom and the health precautions installed in and around the various locations.​
🔹 Who was sick? A prosecutor or a defense attorney?​
🔹 Prosecutors called FedEx employee Tracy Chappell to confirm that gifts were sent to the alleged victims.​
🔹 Defense attorney Laura Menninger confirms that Annie Farmer is the final victim to testify and that she will be doing so under her full name.​
🔹 Prosecutors call Annie Farmer, the final victim, who details her relationship with Epstein and Maxwell.​
🔹 Annie’s former Boyfriend David Mulligan and Farmer’s mother Maria as the government’s case-in-chief ends.​
🔹 Maxwell defense lawyers move for a judgment of acquittal and are denied by Judge Alison Nathan.​
🔹 Gabriel Sherman from Vanity Fair says prosecutors are fumbling the case. ​
🔹 Docket update: Prosecutors are trying to stop the defense from calling Jane’s lawyer Robert Glassman to testify.​
🔹 Will Maxwell testify? Kyle Rittenhouse defense lawyer superstar Mark D. Richards says no.​
🔹 Your comments and questions!​





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Speaker 1:

Hello, my friends. And welcome back to yet. Another episode of watching the Watchers live. My name is Robert grr . I am a criminal defense attorney here at the R and R law group. And today we're talking about go Maxwell she's in trial day nine and 10 we're squeezing two days into one, because day nine was really not much at all. It was just kind of a sick day. We got in yesterday. We had a little bit of testimony from a FedEx employee, and that was it. We were out because a prosecutor I think was sick. We don't know that for sure, but we're gonna talk about what happened yesterday and then we're gonna transition right into today's testimony because today was a Whopper. We had a farmer. This was the only named victim, the only victim in the Epstein Maxwell trial that actually identified herself and came out in court and testified today under her actual identity. And it was very powerful. I have a lot of the , uh , transcript from the usual people we've got inner city press. We've got Adam class failed over at long crime, and we've got a lot of different stories that we're gonna be poking around , uh , and sort of , uh , covering today, asking our some very important questions today. The government finished their case two weeks in and they told us that this thing was gonna be going all the way up into January that we were preparing for a six week trial. So that's kind of a big question that we have did the prosecution fumble the case. We've got an article here from somebody over at vanity fair, who says they did, and I've got some compare and contrast data to take a look at the length of time that the government took in this case about eight days, which if you do the math, we'll get into it. Versus some of the other trials that we've seen, like Derek Chauvin's trial, or like bill Cosby's trial, another case involving similar allegations. So we've got to take a look at that question. We're also ourselves is Glenn Maxwell gonna testify? You remember Mark Richards that gentleman over from the Kyle written house case, the infamous lawyer now not guilty on all accounts. He chimed in. He's got some opinions about putting people on the stand. Remember he did that with Kyle written house . And so he got asked about this for the goin Maxwell case. And so we Laura Meger for the defense who does a lot of the cross examination of Annie farmer today, we're gonna also take a listen to Annie farmer's , uh , ex-boyfriend guy by the name of David Mulligan. He was called into court to testify as was Annie's mother. And so boy, we've got a docket update. The case is being turned over to the defense now. And so the prosecution is already trying to stop the defense from calling forward some of their witnesses that they've already disclosed, that they intend to call. And so, boy, we've got a lot to get to, if you wanna be a part of the show, the place to do that is [email protected] We've got an amazing community over there. A lot of fun stuff takes place there. We have our monthly local meet up . That's taking place tomorrow. We've got our ugly sweaters event. I've got mine right here. And so if you wanna be a part of that, check that [email protected] There's also a form that looks like this. And so if you've got any questions, please feel free to use that form. If you're a, a member, you get a link to the form. And today we've got a special poll form. So if you're over on YouTube or if you're actually in watching the, there is a poll form that you can use to answer a question. The question is, of course, did prosecutors fumble the Glen Maxwell trial? These are the poll results result as it stands right now, 18% say don't know, 81% say yes. Uh , out of all the responses, not a single person says, no, they didn't. So , um, the consensus seems to be that yes, they did fumble the case , uh , thus far, but we're gonna continue to see these responses roll in throughout the show. And with this form, I can actually just sort of change the question and we can ping everybody. And if you're , uh , having the form open, then we can go through and , uh , update the question and take a look and so way in as the show, it's sort of like a real time , uh , you know, game where , Hey, what do you think about this? Pick up your clicker and press that button. We're gonna try that today. It's Friday. We're gonna have some fun. Okay. So we've got that. We've got the form. We have got clips that are all going over at watching the Watchers dot. I'm sorry at Robert griller EQ . Oh my gosh. I'm like a broken record over here. You can see, we've got a lot of the clips here. We have a massive Galin Maxwell playlist. And so you can check out all of that. Something like 60 videos. I think we're getting up to of the Glen Maxwell coverage. And so we've got to get into the news of the day goly Maxwell trial day nine and day 10. We're gonna start with day nine because it wasn't much of a day at all. In fact, it was like maybe a quarter of a day. If that here we have a headline from New York post. They tell us that the trial yesterday, before goly Maxwell was abruptly cut, short lawyer got sick. And so we're gonna go through this. Jeff judge , Allison Nathan came out about 10:30 AM and said, a lawyer was ill needs to get care. So, you know, I don't really know , uh , much more other than that, other than ill and needs to get care, no reason to believe it's COVID related . And the jury was sent out for the day, the New York Southern , uh , district attorney's office. They came out and they posted this statement. They told everybody, well, you know, today's testimony is adjourned and it's scheduled to resume tomorrow due to the illness of an attorney. In the case, we urge you to respect the privacy of all the parties in this litigation and not to disclose the identity of that attorney. An update will follow as to when the trial will resume. Thank you. So we don't know much about it saying it's not COVID , but we do know that trial took place today. So it was either one of those really weird 24 hour bugs, you know, and there are those bugs, right? It's not , it may not be a respiratory illness. It may not be COVID . It may not be something that, you know, requires somebody to, you know, spend three or four days in bed. It could just be a stomach bug that, you know, you take some, go home, take some Pepto. Bimal have a rough night come back to next morning. Woo . I'm better. Let's go judge. So it could have been something like that. I don't know. And it's definitely not appropriate to pry into that. You know, who, what attorney that could be, because nobody likes those types of issues. And we wanna respect everybody's privacy, of course. But my question was how, how are people getting sick in this courtroom? If this is what the courtroom looks like? I mean, everywhere you go , uh , in New York, my understanding is it's like, COVID , you know , uh , insanity everywhere, vaccines in and out of , uh , you know , every single turn, but this was in the courtroom. I mean, this is what it looks like. You've got Plexiglas bubbles for everybody in the courtroom. And you know, it's kind of, you don't see a lot of this. A lot of the sketch artists have been leaving out the COVID bubbles, but apparently this is going on in there. Everybody's masked up, but people are still getting sick. So , uh , that's too bad. Here's another artist rendering looks like we still can see some of the, the COVID bubble. Maybe we, we were mistaking that for, I don't know , pains of glass or something, but yeah, that, it's the COVID bubble that , uh, you know, you can imagine would exist in New York. Judge Nathan said the trial would continue on Friday. It did. Thursday's proceedings began about 9:45 AM after several jurors arrived late. And so we're gonna do a later on in the show, we're gonna ask ourselves how much time has been invested by the prosecutors in this case, in prosecuting this case, Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein, the most prolific trafficking case in , um , you know, maybe ever involving potentially press heads of state from all over the world. Uh, the prince , some of the most high profile people on the whole planet, the most high profile case involving these charges that I , I , that I can think of. And we're done in two weeks. And if you really add the time up kind less than that, because we have one for opening arguments. So you can delete that day. We have another day for the sick day. So if we started, we're gonna look at a calendar later on, but if you calculate it , if we had 10 trial days over the last two weeks, five days a week, you take out opening day opening arguments and you take out the sick day, 10 minus two equals eight. If I can math correctly, and I'm not too good at it. So you have got eight days, but they're not even full days. Remember that judge Allison , Nathan is excusing everybody at 5:00 PM. And if jurors are showing up, this has been a repeat thing, by the way, we've seen a lot of this, they show up late regularly. So if they're showing up late 9 45 to 5:00 PM, jurors are late every day . Oh, well, whatever train problems we saw the other day, a juror, I think it was 45 minutes late, something like that. So you're not even really getting full days. So you take that 10 days subtract the two. Now you're down to eight. Now you subtract, you know, a couple hours from all of the other days. It's like seven and a half days of the government's testimony. Here was a photograph of Jeff Paka , the silent like lasagna he's walking into court. I think this was yesterday. So he didn't look too sick. Here's Bobby stern Heim she's masked up, got those AirPods on, got the gloves on it's cold there in New York. And so they made their way into court testimony picked up yesterday with Laura Menninger, Laura Menninger, of course, representing gal Maxwell, one of her five attorneys. And she was clarifying with the court asking specifically about Annie farmer , who we heard from today, used her full name. Yep . Annie, farmer's gonna come in and testify. This was yesterday. Prosecutors did not raise an objection. So when the full name was used, no problem. So we can go ahead and use it. We can, this is one of the victims where we can just be okay with , uh , discussing it. And so we are gonna take a quick look. Let's pause here. Before we get into the actual testimony and revisit the mind map , which is available [email protected], just so we can get our bearing straight and see where specifically the, the different individuals who testified over the course of yesterday and today, where they're sort of situated in the grand scheme of things. So a reminder that if you are a member over there, you can go and see this form for yourself. And at some point maybe next week, I ahead and make this public , uh, just because I'm kind of irritated with a lot of this. Um , okay. So let's take a quick look. I make sure I got a lot of this , uh , closed out. All right . So here is the mind map that we've spent a lot of time talking about so we can close some of this up. We know that we can zoom all the way out. We have this entire Epstein wing, this entire contingent of victims and unnamed co-conspirators and all of that stuff. We're gonna close that up here, just for , uh , this quick minute, we are going to close up. You can see that we've covered. We've sort of re uh , changed some of this around. So today I moved a lot of these witnesses into different categories. So you can see here, we have a transactional category and we heard from this morning yesterday, I'm sorry. Yesterday morning, we heard from the FedEx paralegal. We're also gonna hear today from an M V D employee. These are really transactional witnesses. They're, they're talking about, you know, moving things around and, and moving money around and that type of stuff. Then we're gonna hear today. We're gonna hear most from Annie farmer . The rest of our day is spent in this wing. And remember that Annie farmer is really the fourth individual. The fourth victim that we've heard from, and the judge gave us a prior ruling from her about her and said that the intercourse that took place, any of those activities that took place in New Mexico were not illegal. The judge said that that was an instruction she's using her real name. So we get a lot of testimony from her. So we'll spend a lot of , a lot of the day, most of the day, talking about her today. And then at the very end we heard from her boyfriend who is a baker. I think this is a Chibata bread. And then you have a mother, obviously, very loving, warm embrace here in this photograph. And so that's not actually them, but it's all I could find from. So that's who we've got here today. We have a lot more to go because we have not heard anything from the defense yet. We're gonna do a full breakdown of everybody, you know, in this entire, in this entire , uh , mind map in a separate video, just going through the full thing at the close of the government's case. Now we're at the case in chief has been, has been concluded for the government. And so we can see all of their different victims. I'm sorry, all of their different witnesses. So, but you can , you can see it . It's just a big, massive list. We've got everybody from the law that was over as part of the Palm beach residence . We've got a lot of the employees. We have the FBI agents who were involved down in New York, New York. And so we're, you know, this , this is a continual work in progress. We're gonna continue to build this out. And so make sure you are following along. All right . So now that we know who we're talking about, let's get into the actual testimony of the day, and we're gonna be picking this up with the FedEx person named Tracy chapel , Traci chapel . And remember this was yesterday, but we're gonna kind of consolidate this into one yesterday. Jury enters all rise. First witness of the day's Traci chapel. She's a senior paralegal over at FedEx. The witness has shown an invoice, a redacted form of it will be made public. So it's basically just a paralegal. Somebody who works in the legal department, who's going to be helping with records. Oh, you work there. You know how you do these things? When , when this invoice comes in, what do you do with it? Right. X, Y, and Z happens. Okay. So then we continue on this witness. According to Adam Feld is to invoices associated with Jeffrey Epstein all from the last few months of 2002. And why are we spending time on FedEx? Remember that a lot of the allegations here are about grooming. That Epstein was sending people, all sorts of stuff, jewelry and makeup and perfume and clothes thousand dollars dresses, this, that, and the other, flying people all over, sending them to art schools , sending them to the children's school in New York. The list goes on and on. So they bring in this FedEx person. And now they're gonna confirm that there are certain transactions happening. Cross examination takes place. Defense lawyer, Laura manager comes out and says, okay, well, take a look at these records that you're talking about. These invoices there seems you , one name on here looks like that's S ke , uh, who is S ke says, Laura Menninger . Well, guess who that is. If we go back over to the mine map and we take a look at it. Well, that was one of Jeffrey Epstein's co-conspirators. And so if we zoom out a little bit, Sarah ke if we go down, open up the Jeffrey Epstein wing, Sarah Kell is right here. You can see her just above my photograph. Sarah ke is one of Jeffrey Epstein's named co-conspirators, who is a part of the 2007 non prosecution agreement named in there. So she can't be prosecuted. And Soly Maxwell is doing everything that she can in her power. You can see that her name is right here. We've talked about her many times. Sarah ke Sarah ke is also basically what goly Maxwell and her team are trying to do. As they're trying to say any one of these other people are responsible for these evil deeds, Sarah, Kell's responsible for it. Why? Because you can see her name on the FedEx invoice. We heard yesterday from Paka that when he was talking to somebody else, he said, well, the first name of somebody who's a victim in this case, it starts with one of these names. Doesn't it? Right? And so we don't know what he's talking about . I mean, we do know what he's talking about. We know exactly who he's talking about, but the jurors do. He's just being coy about it, but he's saying, oh, no, it wasn't Maxwell. Who forced Jane to go do these things. It was one of these other named co-conspirators. Why? Because one of the name co-conspirators shares the same first name as Jane. And it's not Sarah Kell because Sarah Kell's already been brought up. We're talking, we're using her name. So it's one of these other people has the same first name as Jane. So the defense is constantly. It's not , uh , it's not Maxwell. It's Nadia Marcine . Cova it's Leslie gro . It's Adrian Ross. It's Sarah ke they're all co-conspirators, they're all responsible for this. It's obvious because they're listed in any non prosecution agreement from 2000 Evan , it's written there in the document. They can hang their hat on that. Okay? So we know who Sarah Kell is. We go back here. It says, note, these are little bits of evidence that pass by. Nobody notices defense attorneys put these pieces together in summation. What he's telling us is it's very difficult to follow along because we can't really see what they about . So after yesterday, we know everybody's sick . So Adam class build he's reporting. He's just, you know , busy, typing away, reporting away, doing excellent work. And he has to, he has to take a break. Oh judge Nathan. They sent the jurors out for a break and weird parties are gonna go confer in the judge's robing room. They're gonna have a conversation. Now, the juries are gone. Now the parties are in the roaming room. All rise. Jury comes back and enters. Judge Nathan tells the juries, well, you're gonna hate this, everybody. Sorry for the trouble here. But I've been informed that there's an attorney in this case who is ill. She said, they've got no reason to believe it's COVID or anything, but we're gonna be done for the day . So the jurors left for the day. That was it. They were done by like 10 30, I think 10 30, 11, early day. So we didn't have much to talk about yesterday. We spent the day talking about Jesse Molet guilty of five or six counts. And so we had plenty to talk about, but trial was pretty short today. We picked back up good news. Everybody's doing fine. Attorneys healed up. They took some Pepto BIMO or whatever it needed to happen in their back in business court starts today. Judge Nathan, jury enters all rise. Judge, Nathan reports, an update to the jury says ladies and gentlemen, I'm very pleased to report that all of the attorneys are here today. Everyone is doing well. Prosecution reads a stipulation into the record at testing to the authenticity of certain exhibits. Stipulation means an agreement. We agree that these are authentic. We don't need to fight about them. We're just gonna get 'em in there. There you go. First witness of the day comes out. This guy is William Brown. He works over at the DMV for the state of New York. Not gonna be very interesting. Inner city press is reporting on this as well. Prosecutor comes out, believe it's Adam Roach. This time haven't heard much from this fellow , but he is now participating in the trial. He comes out and says, all right , Mr. Brown, are you aware how people receive ID cards? Yeah. Well , I work at the DMV and he says, okay, well, great. Please pick up the folder next to you. It's a sealed government exhibit. So we're not gonna see any of it. They go through, he identifies an ID. He's gonna talk about who it is, blah, blah, blah. He's . He's sort of just a record. Keeping person happens all the time. You bring him in. Can you authenticate this for me? This is an ID card. Can you just tell me that this is the real thing I work at the VD . This is what I look for. This is the process that we go through. It's the real thing. That idea is real. Okay. That's who they say. Okay, fine, judge. Nathan says, all right , well , I'm gonna admit these exhibits under seal. We take a look at defense exhibit LD, three , a all right . It's right there in the binder. How old in 1996 was this person, this person born in 1985. Well , 11 years old. So Sal says brown, 11 years old in born nineteen eighty five, nineteen ninety six, eleven years old. No cross examination . Next witness. We're just getting somebody's age. All right . So pretty simple witness, nothing really, even that interesting there. Now we're done with that stuff. Now we get into the final victim. This is Annie farmer . Here's what it looked like in court. First thing, you're gonna notice Annie farmer. We can see her facial expressions. The judge has not given an order for the sketch artist to eliminate that. And so we don't have blank faces that look like a smeared sketch of pastel across a person's forehead. We now have facial features and she does doesn't look too happy about this, right? This woman has been fighting her butt off , uh , against these people for a long time. She's been courageously doing it under her name. And she is now in court testifying under her name. Here's how it sounded. Next witness is up. Prosecutor comes out. Believe it's Laura Pran . Laura Pran comes out. Your honor, the go calls . Annie farmer . Nathan says, as the courtroom braces, the wind sort of gets sucked out of the front door. Annie farmer , Annie farmer may come forward. She does. She stands up there, spells her name. The judge gives a limiting instruction to the jury, telling the jurors that the allegations about quote , physical contact between Glenn Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein in New Mexico were not illegal. She was 16 at the time there, remember this, this is why we marked this down over on the mine map. This is why we said specifically that she, she sort of kind of like half of a victim. Now, remember when we go back to Annie farmer , we've got two victims where the judge gave a , an instruction to Kate. The judge read into it , an , an instruction on the record, according to class fail and others, that Kate is not a victim of the indictment. Nothing there that she's gonna talk about makes her a victim of the indictment is how we've read that argument. Same concept here for Annie farmer . The, the physical contact between her and Epstein and her and Maxwell is not illegal. We just read that from the judge. Now, when you go over to the indictment, part of that is because they're not a minor. And so how do you have crimes involving trafficking? If they're not minors and the actual physical allocation, a physical contact is not in fact illegal, these different charges. We'll see what the jury does with. Okay. So we are now talking back about Annie farmer . She's testifying in court spells her last name. Judge says anything with the physical contact, not legal prosecutor goes on. Laura says, can you see anyone in the courtroom here? Who has ever given you a massage? Annie farmer identifies a Maxwell. You yeah, Glen Maxwell has. Thank you. Can you tell me about your career Ms . Farmer? So she talks about her family's financial situation growing up saying , uh , money was tight often. It was a stressor. Since my parents were divorced asked about her career. She goes on, she talks about her siblings talks about Maria Farmer, her sister prosecutor. PANCE asks her to dig in a little bit. Uh , tell me where you were born. Annie . When I was born in Missouri. And you've got your PhD, is that right? Yes, I do. And where'd you get your PhD? Well , I got that at the university of Texas at Austin. And how old were you when , uh , Maxwell gave you a massage? I was 16 family finances. Again, talks about an older sister, Maria, nine years older. She was living in New York city. She was the one working with Epstein when she was growing up, had a lot of concerns about how college would be paid for her . Parents were divorced When Annie's traveling back and forth. Remember her sisters in New York. She says that Epstein purchased a ticket for her, for Annie. Maria's working for him already. So it's not much trouble for Epstein to just purchase a ticket over for Annie as well. She says, I was really excited about that. I got to go see my sister and Epstein was also objection. The defense says Epstein was gonna say what? No , no, no. You don't get to say that that's a hearsay. That's an out of court statement. Objection is sustained. She doesn't get to go into what Epstein is talking about. Specifically. Inner city press was saying that Laura asked her, okay. So how'd you travel to New York and Annie just goes off and says , uh , Jeffrey Epstein paid. You know, I was excited to see my father Jeffrey Epstein had said, ah , can't say it right. That's the statement. That's Jeffrey . Epstein's out of court statement. That's hearsay. Can't come in defense objects. It's sustained. That question is not allowed. Annie farmer says she met Epstein in New York, but didn't meet Maxwell there. So again, we're talking about Epstein in New York, but not Maxwell. It goes on prosecutor. Laura says, all right . So your sister was in New York. You were talking a about Epstein. I know we got an objection to that. Let me ask you a different question. What did your sister say to you about the trip to New York? Objection again, that's hearsay. That's her sister's statement. That's out of court. She's saying something she's not here in court. She's saying something. And we're talking about that statement. That's hearsay. The prosecutor says , yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's about the effect on the listener. There's an exception to that rule. And then the judge gets into it with them. Is this what we discussed? So we talk about this. Okay. I'm gonna let it in within the scope. And I'll tell the juror that this is not offered for the truth. So gonna give a limiting instruction. She can tell the jurors what the sister told her, but it's only for that statement impacted the sister. It's not anything to do with any of the , of the truth of the statement. So now that Annie got a very nice plane ticket to go visit her sister prosecutor, Pran says, all right , Annie. Well, who did you thank for your ticket? I mean, somebody bought you this nice ticket. Who'd you thank for that. And he says, Epstein Maxwell's lawyers jump in there. Objection, hearsay, screaming again, multiple objections, three in a row with this prosecutor back to back . Pran says, all right . All right . I'll move on. Not allowed to get that Epstein conversation out. Prosecutor says, I'll move on. Let me ask you some more , uh, poignant questions. Did you meet Jeffrey Epstein? Farmer says yes. Uh , twice during this trip. Thank you, Ms. Farmer . Okay. Uh , we're gonna show the witness here. The parties, the court government exhibit , uh , number 1 0 1 . Can you put all that up for us here, please? They pull it up to the screen. We don't know what it is, but here's another sketch rendering of Annie farmer in court, looking at something on a screen. We don't know what that is, but it's gonna be something there. And so testimony continues. And now that we have some facial expressions, you certainly, you know, a hard day, hard day for anybody in a position like this. It continues. The photograph is a photograph of herself. It's from around the time she met Epstein, she said she was 16 years old in this photo. We're going back to the very time prosecutor PANCE we start says, where did you meet Epstein that home? It was a very grand home. I was at the time I was staying with my sister in her apartment. How'd that make you feel when you met him? Well , I was excited. He was , uh , very friendly with me. I mean, he seemed really down to earth. He was very nice when I met him and he was telling me that he could help me . And I was just, I was thrilled about, you know, my family had didn't have much money. He had a beautiful home. I just , it was kind of a dream. What did he ask you about when you were over there? When you were talking with Epstein? How'd that conversation go? And he says, well, my plans, things I wanted to do, he suggested UCLA. You know, he said he had connections and things like that. He was also thing . Maybe I should go on an international trip to sort of, kind of boost my application. Gimme some credibility. What else did you guys do? Annie, we went to see the movie , uh , five monkeys, maybe 12 monkeys. And when you went to see that movie with Bruce Willis did Epstein. Where did he sit? Well , he sat between me a , uh , us and things got a little bit strange there. That's when he rubbed my leg. Rubbed your leg, huh? Well, what was your reaction to that? Ms . Farmer? I was very surprised, honestly. I mean, I felt sick to my stomach. Don't know where that came from. My sister, Maria is sitting right over on the other side and he's rubbing my leg and Maria works for Jeffrey Epstein and I'm just a sister. I just got invited out to New York. We're just gonna go see a movie with Bruce Willis . It's a great movie, Brad Pitts in it . Annie farmer says when my sister would look over, when Maria would see it, then he would stop. And then as soon as Maria would look away, then he'd begin again. Palm Moran says, did you tell your sister she works for him? Do you tell him, tell her the farmer says, no, I was confused. I knew she was protective. I knew she would be upset. You know , she might lose her job if she goes and tells Epstein, you know, maybe he fires her. Maybe he gets mad at me. He's got all this money. I , I was scared to death. So I just decided not to say anything. Nothing at all . Inner city , press reports, prosecutor Pran says, oh, thank you, Ms . Farmer , did you write anything down? Did you write in a journal? Did you keep notes? Farmer says I did. Well, tell us about that. What did you do? Can you describe your journaling for us? Sure. Oh , you know, I wasn't a consistent journaler, but I would sometimes write down, you know , things that were happening in my life. And I did keep them in logs and I have them available and they have 'em available. And so boom prosecutor moves. I'd like to submit exhibit whatever it's journal entry. So, and so that goes up on the screen and Annie farmer is gonna read through these. She reads from it, including about going to see Phantom of the opera. She had champagne with Epstein. Then we have a later entry. We went to the movies with Epstein. She notes in that entry. I was weirded out. He let go of my hand when he was talking to Maria, Pran says, Ms . Farmer, when you were writing this down in your journal, how'd you feel about Epstein? She says I was conflicted. I knew it was not normal. I knew it wasn't right, but I was, I was trying to make it seem okay. Andy goes back to her journal, says I'm thinking of doing something in Africa. It was be incredible. Class field gives us a little bit more when they went to Phantom of the opera and then a movie. The language that Annie said was that he creed her hand. She wasn't expecting it at all. She read from her diary, says the best night was when Maria and I saw Phantom of the night. Her review at the time says quote , eyeballed. It was fantastic. I was so moved. Beautiful play. She reads from another entry. This journal entry was back in 1996. You see why we get the question about 1996 and about somebody who's born at a certain time. Couple of quick details about New York that I didn't mention earlier is a , what she wrote down in this entry. She wrote down that she knew what it sounded like. She was trying to justify him doing something weird, but it isn't reflecting on what she wrote. Now. She says, I was just trying to come up with an excuse or a justification to try to make it feel okay. She said throughout the night he was harassing, rubbing her arm shoe and her foot. Cause it was a little bit weird. One of those things that was hard to explain and I kept trying to justify it and make it seem like it was okay, Annie farmer's direct exam continues. They now switch over to New Mexico. They prosecutor says , how did you get out there? Says, well, I flew commercially. I think it was about the beginning of spring, 1996 sometime in April. And is that where you next saw Jeffrey Epstein? Yes, it was in New Mexico and Laura Palmer and says. And what did you think you'd be seeing out there when you went and him? Annie max Golet Maxwell's lawyer's objection, foundation. Lack of foundation calls for speculation. Sustained. Here is another screen sketch of the trial date can see Laura Pomeranz . We've got photo graphs of Jeffrey Epstein. We've got Annie farmer again in her glasses. Again, looking down, going through these exhibits, reading from her journal and so on Glenn Maxwell's in court masked up as his judge, Nathan inner city press carries on says when you landed in New Mexico, then what happened next? You flew there commercially. It was April, 1996. What happened next? Well , when I landed, there was a man. He was standing outside , uh , the , uh , air airport with a sign, with my name on it, drove us to a ranch Epstein's ranch. It was there that I met go Maxwell. She was slam attractive. She was in her thirties. She was an adult. Laura asked, well, what does she sound like? She had a British accent. I'd been told that Maxwell would be there in New Mexico. And it made me more comfortable. You know, after what happened in New York, Jeffrey Epstein was feeling my leg up in the movies. I was a little bit concerned about traveling out there, but I knew that Golin was gonna be, there is a female I'll safer there. And who told you that Maxwell was gonna be there? Annie says my mother. Huh ? Annie. When you got there, what did you and Ms. Maxwell talk about? So we know you met Jeffrey , but what about Maxwell? Annie says, we talked about my life, my school and British authors. Did you ever leave the ranch when you were there? It's kind of in the middle of nowhere. I think it was 120 acres. Did you ever go anywhere? Yeah. We went to a nature food store. One time Maxwell brought me henna and we went to a Western wear store. I had some cowboy boots that were also purchased for me, cowboy boots that were purchased for me. Let's put a pin in that one. Cowboy boots class field gives us a little bit more color talks about Maxwell as being very well spoken , very articulate saying that her being there was a very good thing. Ms . Farmer, what was your impression about the Maxwell and the Jeffrey Epstein relationship? What did you think of these two? She says, I thought that they were romantic partners. They appeared to be intimate with each other. And remember why is important? We went through a lot of pictures in this channel, showing that asking ourselves is Maxwell a villain? Is she a participant? Is she in cahoots with Jeffrey Epstein? Are they ying and yang? Are they two peas in a pod? Or is she the victim is Jeffrey Epstein. The sole proprietor of this enterprise and is just a victim. We've had a number of different witnesses come out, including a farmer here saying thought that they were a couple, they were inseparable everywhere. They went, they were together. She's buttresing that line of questioning that we've heard throughout the entirety of this trial, the defense is trying to do the opposite. They weren't intimate at all. She was a victim forced to give him foot foot massages. She was held captive. And so on. We turned back to these boots though. Class field says she describes being bought the boots. So who bought those boots for you? Well Epstein did. And who was present for you when those boots were being purchased? How Maxwell was we got some troubling boots coming up and he continues, says, yeah, we , while we were there, you know, we also went to the movies again, but this time Maxwell came, says, I didn't wanna go because the experience, the last time was problematic to say the least. But I thought out this time it might be different. Of course Maxwell's there. And so we went to see the movie called primal fear. I haven't seen that one. He right away, tried to hold my hand and cares and hold my foot. And my arm, Annie farmer says, guess Maxwell, didn't stop that at all. How much of the movie did he touch you for says , uh, Laura? Uh , most of it, if not all of it, I mean , he didn't even hide it. And afterwards, back at the ranch Maxwell told me to rub his feet and then he'd show me. And then we'd get into all of this back to those boots. How much did those boots cost there? And he says they were over a hundred dollars. I was great fall . I was gracious. But then this movie stuff happened back at the ranch Maxwell, told me to rub his feet and she was gonna show me how to do it. And then later she told me to get undressed. And then she started rubbing on me. I thought I was the Maus that , and it gets a little bit more troubling. Annie farmer says that Glenn Maxwell sat down. She actually held one of Epstein's feets foot feet, one of Epstein's feet and instructed her to massage. The other Glen sits down, starts doing the massage that we saw a little bit of a preview on when she was on the plane previously. Oh , says, oh, Annie, come on over here, grab that other leg and start rubbing on that one. I just watched what she was doing and she instructed me. And so I just did what she told me to do. Says Annie, I felt very uncomfortable. I wanted to stop. I was hoping it'd be over quickly. I, I was, I was shocked. I was in total panic and fear. Then this is when it really goes bad. Maxwell says Laura, did she ever give you a massage? Annie? Yeah, she did . Annie says she set up a table in the room where she was staying. And what were you wearing during this massage? Nothing. Why not? Well, I , I mean, Maxwell told me to get undressed. Who did Golin Maxwell did. She told me to, to take my clothes off. She did. Yeah, Golin did. Yeah. And so you lied down, right. And what happened when you were relying on your back? Annie says that Maxwell pulled the sheet down and started to touch her. Annie farmer were recall having this weird sense that Epstein might be watching her during this massage. Laura asks Annie, how did that make you feel? Annie says I wanted to get off the table. I wanted out of there. The door was open. I had the sense Epstein could see in the morning, Epstein came into my room and he said he wanted to cuddle. He climbed into bed with me. I didn't like it at all. Annie , did you tell him when he was in your, did you him that and he says, no. Why not? There was no one else around. So you laid there? Yeah. And what happened next? All the bad stuff in the world after that, what happened? After that? I went to the bathroom. I shut the door. Did you want to cuddle with Epstein? No, I didn't. We move on any farmer then describes moving back home to Phoenix. Shout out , asked if she wrote in her journal about her trip to New Mexico. She says, no says I don't wanna think about it. Laura says, you know, Annie, you have this memorabilia from your trip to New Mexico, those boots, those boots that Glen and Jeffrey Epstein, the people who abused, you bought you, why'd you keep those boots, Annie. Well, she said, you know, look at first, I just shoved them in the back of the closet. Agents asked, they came and they said, do you have the boots? And she said that she found them. And you know that I wore the boots and <affirmative>, I mean, I kept the boots. They were nice. They were a hundred dollars boots. They were nice boots. So yeah, I kept them first. They were in the back of my closet, but yeah , I did keep 'em prosecutor says, okay, well, tell me about this. Let's talk about where you went in 1996. Where was that? Annie says I went to Thailand. I went to Vietnam. Oh, well that sounds fun. Well for , well, that was for cultural immersion. They fo they show a photo on the screen. Annie farmer . There's a small elephant. There's a wooden seed on it. Very beautiful animal. Laura Palmer says, well, that seems like a nice trip. Who paid for that? Annie says Epstein did sending her overs sees in 1996. Palm ants continues any more contact with Maxwell and Epstein since then? No . When we rewind the clock on this, who was the first person you told when this type of stuff happened? Well, my mother, I mean, generally speak prosecutor says. And what did you tell your mom? Maxwell's lawyer's objection. You can't see that? What did you tell your mom? What? Objection they go and they have a sidebar. They go up , they talk to the judge. They're whispering. Maxwell remains alone at the defense table. She's rubbing arm. She's wearing an orange and pink sweater today. They come back from the sidebar. Not gonna answer that question. Okay . Not gonna ask that. What did you tell your mom? Objection comes back. No repeat. Um , did you tell anyone else change his direction? Annie farmer says, yeah, I had a boyfriend and I told him <affirmative> , we're gonna hear from him. He testifies right after she does. Farmer says, Pran says, did you speak to the media? And he says, yeah, I did many times. When did that start? Oh , back in 2002. And basically consistently since then. How about law enforcement? Did you ever talk to law enforcement about this case? Annie? Yeah. To the FBI. When was that? From 2006 to maybe 2007 prosecutor continues. How about since all this happened? Have you spoken with the media more recently? Yeah, I did. Uh , off the record, I had a , a conversation in 2016. And then on the record, I had a conversation in 2019 says, Annie, Laura says, thank you for sharing that. Were you paid for those interviews by the way? No, I wasn't. And you were interviewed by law enforcement here in New York. Annie says, yeah, I was, it was also in 2007 19. It , it was in the fall. That's when I was suing Epstein and Maxwell. And did you participate in the Epstein victim's compensation fund, Annie? Yeah, I did. I was awarded 1.5 million. My lawyers were pro bono, so they didn't take a cut. And the prosecutor finishes with this one. You have any financial stake in the outcome of this trial? Annie, Annie farmer says no. So we get the cross examination . That's going to start from miss Bobby stern Heim in a second. Here is another photograph we heard from Annie farmer that she was testifying against Maxwell. Previously sued them multiple times. This is a prior sketch from when Maxwell was back in court. Remember he was being prosecuted previously. That's where he allegedly didn't kill himself. So this is a sketch from back then. And so Annie's been fighting this case for a long time. And this is her day in court testimony continues. When you came back after that trip, after the assault took place, what'd you do about that? Did you talk to your mom about any of this stuff? I told my mother I was not assaulted and I didn't want to talk about it is what she said. Hmm . Did you tell the FBI that Maxwell gave view massage? Yeah, I did. And, and back during that interview, you sort of used the word, reclaim your boots. You said you wanted to reclaim your boots by wearing them again. What does that mean? Well , it was a dark memory and I had felt so taken advantage of by both of them that I wanted to reclaim that farmer says I had a lot of problems coming forward because it was just a shameful memory, but you know, I want accountability and I want these people being stopped. I have no financial stake in any of this stuff. She says, and cross examination starts. So Laura Palmer for the government finishes the direct examination of afar . Our victim in the Glen Maxwell trial. We have cross examination now starts by Galin Maxwell's defense attorney, Laura Meger . And here's how that sounded managering walks out. And you can see we're doing the pairs again. So gender to gender manager comes out and says , uh , good to see you a good afternoon, Ms . Farmer. I wanna clarify something here today. Your sister is the one who arranged the travel to New York, right? Maxwell. Didn't do that. Your sister did that. Annie farmer says, yeah, that's right. Manager says, you told the FBI that flying alone was not abnormal for you also. Right? And he says, yeah, I usually had my younger sister with me when I flew to visit my father, Meger says, I gotta the report right here. It says that you said that flying alone was not abnormal for you. Right? Here's the report. Annie farmer finally says, yeah, yeah , I see it . It says that. Thank you. Menninger continues. And so we're getting very clear here. You're saying that Glen Maxwell had no role in your travel to New York, right? None of that, Annie farmer says she did not. And you believe that Mr. Epstein purchased your plane ticket, right? Farmer says, yes, this is the trafficking portion of this Maxwell. Didn't traffic. Anybody there's no conspiracy to traffic. Any of this stuff Epstein bought the ticket and farmer's sister was a per person who purchased the flight or, or co coordinated the flight Epstein's money. Her sister's, the travel agent manager says you also saw the blue man group . You went to flea markets with your sister, right. Farmer says, yeah . And in New York, Ms. Maxwell , didn't take you to the lion king. Is that also correct? Farmer says she did not. Maxwell's lawyer continues. She's able to establish that there's no sexual act in the New York home that's being alleged asks Annie, no one showed you any of those torpedoes or those VI , uh , those , uh, buzzers or anything like that. Right? No. And Maxwell wasn't even there. She was never there. Isn't that also true? That's true here. These are the allegations class field tells us about the New York movie theater and the New Mexico movie theater and the ranch Menger continues. You know, those journal entries, right? You wrote down something about the Phantom of the opera. You said that was the best night of your trip. Yeah. I remember that manager says, do these journal entries help you remember details and emotions and things that maybe you otherwise might have forgotten? And farmer says. Yeah. And so manager's just gonna toy with this for a while . So like, if you wrote something down maybe 10 years ago, you don't remember that thing you could look back and it would remind you about what happened, wouldn't it. And it would remind you about those emotions. And it would be probably a little bit more accurate back then than maybe it is currently because it's sort of a more real time presence , sense impression, isn't it. Okay. Meninge then points out , goes back through farmer's journal entry. Talking about these actions in the movie theater Epstein's actions were categorized by farmer as weird and also not weird. Managering says, well , how do you feel about it now? Right now, I still find a , it weird says Annie and your memories today are colored by hindsight, right? Uh , Annie says, of course they are manager continues without a journal entry from the New Mexico trip. We can't confirm who invited you there with a piece of paper, right? And Annie says with a of paper , uh, no manager says that without a journal, there's no piece of paper confirming what happened in New Mexico and how she felt about it. Farmer agrees with her as qualifying it with a quote , a piece of paper confirmation. And so managers sort of saying, oh, you wrote down all these other journal entries . You spent a lot of time writing about all these other things you said it was the best night of your life. You said you did this, that and the other, but here you didn't write anything about this. One manager says that farmer were called the date of that trip by researching when the film came , uh , called primal fear came out and was working backwards. I don't think I would say it that way. So in other words, what managering is saying is <laugh> you see what she's doing? She's saying that, that this, that, that farmer wrote all this stuff down, there are giant gaps. And she, after the fact went and sort of filled in those gaps in the future and went back and sort of has hindsight to fill in those gaps saying, I didn't know exactly when this happened, but I went back and it was primal fear. So I went and looked that up and I pieced the rest of this all together. And so part of my memory that I'm testifying about today, part of that is from my journal part of that's from my memory and part of it's this other stuff that I just kind of went around and filled in the gaps, like looking up when primal fear happened and all this other stuff. And so the memory, which is the second of our three themes here, memory, money and manipulation are, of course it's a key element. The memory's all bad. So Laura manager is trying to break that down. We have another little bit of insight from inner city press. He continues and says, you wrote about a cross country skiing trip and going to see bands in a bar. I mean, you wrote that in your journal, right? So like, you talked about your emotions after returning from New York, what a great time you had there. And so you wrote a lot of stuff about skiing and bands and drinking and dancing and cross country trips and hotels and all this stuff. But nothing about that, about that trip in New Mexico, weird manager says , so in your journal, you said, what Epstein did in the movie theater was also not weird. Right? You said that in your journal, didn't you? Annie says, yeah. I said it was , I said it was not weird, but I was struggling. And so you were only calling it weird in hindsight then is what you're saying. So you're saying it's weird. Now, back then you said it was not weird. And so you went back and you looked up the movie primal fear and you're filling in the gaps. Then you said it was not weird. Now you're saying, it's weird. Right? She's saying, well, I was struggling. Manager says, okay, fine. Let's go to exhibit 6 0 4. This is the last journal entry that you gave to the government for this case. Right? Annie farmer says yes. And you never gave the government, the full journal. Did you? The full thing so that we could take a look at it so we could corroborate it and see what else is in there. But you never gave him the full thing, did you ? No, I didn't manager continues. And so you actually went back and you researched primal fear . You saw that you didn't remember much about this. And so you looked it up and said, when did it come out? So you could fill it in? She says , well, I wouldn't say that. I did it that way. And so manager says, fine , let me say it a different way for you. Then. How about this, Annie, you communicated with a journalist and you told him you'd research. The release date of primal fear, right? Annie farmer says, yes. So now you see where this is going. These journalists are coming out and she has to go back and read a story now to facilitate a journalist desire, to have a story. She didn't remember it. A journalist is asking her all these questions. A journalist is out there saying , uh , we've got a great story. She's filing lawsuits all over the place. Can't really put it together in her own mind, picks up a little clue, put one together and comes up with a conclusion. Well, guess what's gonna happen. Well, as soon as we get the defense experts out here to talk about how that's not really a good thing and how the human mind doesn't really work that way, we're gonna see if the jury buys any of it. So she continues on says, you communicated with the journalist, told them you searched the release date of primal fear . Yes. So you added facts. You built out this into something that maybe wasn't exactly connected to reality manager finishes up on direct. You didn't mention it, but there was also a cook on the ranch when you were there. Right? The farmer says, I don't remember the cook and you didn't see the big glorious Zoro ranch at that time either. Right? Farmer says, no manager goes back to these boots and says, you know, you mentioned these boots, but on the trip you spent a significant amount of time , uh, riding horses, right? Annie farmer says, is that a question throwing it back? And she says, you told that in the FBI to the FBI in 2006, didn't you farmer says, yes, I did. So they're getting into it. And manager says, are these, the boots holds 'em up right in court. Are these the boots? Annie farmer says, yeah, those are them. And Meger moves for admission of the boots. The boots are getting admitted, admit the boots. So the boots are now in evidence, which means the juries can go look at the boots and play around the boots and examine the boots and have all the fun and to put 'em on it , I guess if they want to, I suppose, but it carries on Laura Menninger representing Maxwell, Annie farmer . So you've got these boots. You decided to wear the boots. Even when you knew that they were evidence in a crime, you wore them frequently. Well, I mean, I didn't wear them to work. I wore them when I was two stepping. I was dancing and I needed boots. Okay . I didn't have any other boots. I was two stepping and I can move pretty dang nicely in these boots. So yeah, I wore 'em . So you wore the boots that , uh , Jeffrey , I Epstein you are assailant and abuser. The man who ruined your life, you wore the boots that Jeffrey Epstein gave you when you went dancing. Okay. Mening goes on. So in the movie theater that you were , uh , weirded I out or not wear it out or whatever by they didn't, he didn't touch you, you know, in the Nono area. Right. He didn't, he didn't do that. Did he? Annie farmer says, no, he didn't. And you said that you were completely nude for that full body massage, but you only told the journalist that you had no bra on prosecutor screams. Objection, which I'm sure was sustained. Probably dealt with that. Prior manager says, you said in 2019, you were unsure. If you had your underwear on there's an objection, Nathan overrules. It gonna allow that question. It gets asked. The manager says, and you also don't recall Jeffrey Epstein putting one of those torpedoes in your back. Do you farmer says no, I don't recall that either manager shifts her attention. Uh , Annie , look at this for us over here. You see this document up here, Annie , you told your mother, right? That you were not assaulted. You were not abused. Didn't you? Annie says, I said I was not assaulted. Okay. So you actually told your mom that got it. Manager also says, so you also told the Epstein victims compensation fund, that hand handing in the movie theaters. You told them that that was abuse. Yeah. I told them in detail, what happened? But you checked the box , uh , New York. So you think that handholding is abuse? Is that right? I mean, you checked the box that there was abuse in there. That's handholding. You said New York, you were in New York. You said that this was abuse. It was just handholding. He didn't touch you anywhere else. It was just on the hands. A little weird, except you said it was a little not weird. And you marked, when you were gonna go get your million dollar compensation, that this was abuse, didn't you? So you think that just holding hands in a movie theater is abuse, cuz that's what you said in New York. When you submitted this to the Epstein victims compensation fund. So if you think just handholding is abuse, maybe the standards are off a little bit. You said he didn't touch anything. You didn't tell your sister about it. You saw him again multiple times after this fact, you went to the movies with him. Again, you, you had to look up when all this happened. When Porter was asking you about it, look up primal fear. You were creating memories outta nothing. So you can go create a story. You've got multiple lawsuits that are flying all over the place and you're gonna get paid for this. Aren't you and you didn't write about it in your journal. And when your mother asked you about it, you told her specifically the person that you acknowledge that you talk to on a regular basis, that I was not assaulted. Cross examination continues. You're also represented by a law firm, right? Boys Scher . Yes . You know how much that firm has made in connection with representing Epstein accuser? Judge <laugh> judge Nathan objects, judge Nathan objects, Laura Meger continues. And, and she says, and you and judge Nathan yells out, stop, stop. Look at this. Do you know how much that law for has made in connection? Representing Epstein accusers, judge Nathan objects manager says, and you and judge Nathan shouts out, stop, stop it manager. Stop it. Right now manager is bold as hell. We got a federal judge screaming at her to stop a line of questioning in court manager continues. And you you're also on a WhatsApp group of Epstein friends. One of those group messages. They're very dangerous. Be careful what you send in them. Annie says, yeah, yeah, I am. And you've emailed back and forth with Virginia Roberts. Haven't you? I have yeah, Virginia and I have talked a lot about that. Do you recall? Okay, so we , so that finishes up. Yeah. And so it ends up with that question, Virginia Roberts finishes. I is the last question. We get a little bit of redirect exam. Now, Laura Palmer comes out. Ms . Farmer. I'm gonna ask you back about those statements that you made to the FBI in 2006. Do you recall those? Yeah , I do. Can you read the rest of that sentence here in this exhibit? Maxwell's lawyer scream out. Objection, judge Nathan overrules them. And this comes in Annie farmer res they canceled Maria's trip to New Mexico at the last minute. Oh , Annie was supposed to come out with Maria to New Mexico and they didn't bring Maria. They just brought Annie out there. Cause maybe they wanted her isolated Pran says. Yeah . And you may mentioned this movie, this film, primal fear. Annie farmer says, yeah, that movie PR uh , depicts misconduct, apparently it's a legal thriller about an attorney and his client. Something about murdering a Catholic arch Bishop . Oh , sounds interesting. So they're talking about that movie farmer says, I thought that they were taking me to that movie just to sort of try to confuse me as to the boundaries, you know, as to what's right or wrong in order to abuse me. Maxwell's lawyer scream out objections. And judge Nathan says it's overruled. So that stays no further questions from the prosecutors. Judge Nathan allows that allows her to speculate on , uh , why they may have taken her to the movies, which is sort of a weird thing to let in . But uh, next witness that's it. So that was the direct cross examination and the redirect examination of Annie farmer , the final victim in the Glen Maxwell trial. And we're almost at the end of all testimony. We're gonna see here that we're gonna wrap this up. Nice. And next witness comes in is Annie farmer's former boyfriend. This guy's name is David Mulligan. Couldn't find a picture of him. He's apparently a baker. And so we have a picture of this delicious loaf of bread over here representing him. Don't you just wanna take a bite out of it. So the line of questioning starts, prosecutor says, did any Annie David, a David, did Annie tell you about how the trip to Thailand was paid for? David Mulligan says yeah, Epstein paid for it. And what did Annie tell you about being new in New York? And you were dating what she tell you. And David says that Annie said that Epstein touched her leg in the theater and she didn't wanna say anything because Epstein was helping her sister Maria and her artistic career Palm Moran prosecutor says, did Annie tell you that Maxwell touched her on her chest during the massage? David says, yeah. Did Annie tell you why she didn't speak up? Yeah. She said she was afraid of jeopardizing her sister Maria's opportunities. She was working for Epstein. She was an artist. She had a lot going on for her . <affirmative> very good. Thanks, David, Bobby stern Heim Maxwell's lawyer comes out very short, direct exam for that witness comes back out. We're in cross exam already. Bobby says, Hey David, you you've seen things in the media about this trial. Right? Well, you know, I'm not much of a news watcher to be honest, cupcakes are more of my thing. Stern Heim says. So you know that she made 1.5 million, right? Mulligan says no, do not know that one. That's interesting. He says, huh? Is the sound that he made stern Heim. And uh, you guys are friends, right? Yeah. And Annie farmer, she went to your recent wedding, right? Yeah. Okay. No further questions from you. Thanks David. And then we get to, I think our LA oh, we get a little bit of a redirect here. Yeah. So we've got Laura Palmer comes back, back out and says , um , why do you remember what Annie farmer told you about New Mexico? Like why Mulligan says these were big moments. We discussed these things while we were being physically affectionate with each other. Palmer aunt says no further questions. Judge NA Ethan calls the next witness and the last and final witness of the government's case in chief , in the Glenn Maxwell trial. Here it is. We've got Janice Swain . Now this is not an actual photo of Janice Swain . I was not able to identify her , uh, particularly, but this is just a very nice mother and a very nice daughter, probably something like what Janice and Annie are hopefully doing tonight after a day of grueling testimony. Next witness Janice Swain comes in. Prosecutor says, Hey , uh , Ms . Swain, how old are you today? 71. While you look fabulous. Prosecutor says, when did you speak with Jeffrey Epstein? And Swain says, well, you know, when he went , wanted to take Marie on his plane to Florida for a work trip, she was working for him back then. I talked to him back then. And what'd he tell you next? Well , uh , he told me about a meeting of students at his ranch in New Mexico. There were college plans or something like that. I asked him who was gonna be chaperoning this little affair. And he said that his wife Glen would do it. It sounded pretty reasonable to me. So I said, yeah, go on the trip, go for it. How sounds fun. Uh , who's go . Oh, she's a oh very nice , uh , British socialite. These people are billionaires and millionaires. They've got a ton of money. They've got a ranch . They've got private planes. It's probably fine. No big deal. Yeah's gonna be there. So Swain mom says, and Annie came back and she had this pair of black boots. She said that Epstein bought them for her. She seemed really tired. Later. I asked what happened in New Mexico. Laura prosecutor says, well, what'd she say, mom says she didn't wanna talk about it. Prosecutor says no further questions. Manager comes out for a short cross exam, says you don't know if Maxwell was aware, whether Maria would travel to New Mexico. Do you, in other words, Maxwell didn't know about any of these trips and when Annie was in Thailand, you were in Germany, right? Yes. And yes. And yes, no further questions. And the government comes out. The prosecutors rest, the government rests. That's the end of the government's case in chief. And so we're gonna break that down here in a quick minute and do some analytical analysis. But before we do, we gotta close out the day when the government rests its case, of course, we're gonna get a movement, a judgment, a motion for acquital. And that's exactly what we've got here. We see this is extremely formulaic. This happens basically at the conclusion of every single government's case. You ask for a motion for a , uh , of acquittal. Exactly. What's happening here. Maxwell's attorney is doing that says, your honor, jury leaves. Now , uh, we now move for an acquittal. Judge. Nathan says like as to all the counts or one or two or four, how many Dale says yeah, all of them judge counts. Depend on the testimony of Jane. There is no evidence here that persuaded or induced Jane to come to New York. She came on her own. Therefore, none of these charges stand Adele continues. He says there is flying back to Palm beach. In other words, there's once Jane lands in New York, she flies back to Palm beach, but that's her own prerogative. If she wants to travel back to New York, I'm sorry. Back to Palm beach. She's free to do that. No. Enticing her to go back to Palm beach. She flew of her own volition to New York. She decided to go back. That's her prerogative, not ours. Accompanying somebody is not encouraging. All Glen did was filed some paperwork. So Jean is free to travel all over the place, but we had nothing to do with it. Not coercion, not trafficking, nothing of the sort prosecutor comes up . Roar box stands up and says, give me a break judge. This court should deny that defense motion. Jane was not in New York by accident. All right . She didn't just show up there, wandering around, trying to find the statue of Liberty. Okay. She was there for a particular purpose. There was no non sexual reason for her to be there. She was there. We know why she was there. As soon as she sat down in the movie theater, creepy Jeffrey Epstein was rubbing all up and down her leg . All right . Jane said, the defendant also talked about sleeping with her. The enticement statute that we've , uh , referenced to your judge in our indictment is perfectly applicable. And so we're asking that you deny that motion. Thank you, judge. Nathan thinks about it for about 37 seconds and says yes. Motions are denied. Okay. So thanks for making your record. Got it. Yeah. It's obviously gonna be denied. I know you had to do it, but OB obvious. Okay. So , uh , anything else we need to do before Thursday team Maxwell? All the defense attorneys jump in and they say, well, we want our witnesses anonymous too . So the same sort of , uh , stuff that we saw, they want anonymity too , for all their witnesses. So , uh , that's just great grand. Wonderful. We're gonna see what that looks like next week, but that's the conclusion. Now you'll notice here that they're telling us that we're coming back on Thursday. What? That's right. Folks, we don't have any Maxwell trial Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday next week. Who knows why somebody must be on vacation or doing Christmas thing or something. But the judge said no court for the first three days next week. And we're gonna pick back up with the defense on Thursday. So that means we've gotta find some other stuff to talk about. And we will cuz there is a plenty. Now that was the testimony. That is the government's entire case in chief , but we don't stop there. We've gotta take a look at the court docket entry because there were some updates that came out this last few days. Let's fly through some of this quickly. I know the show is running long . Some of this, I was gonna spend a little bit more time on yesterday, but we don't really need to spend a ton of time on it. But I wanna show you a few things that are happening. We have a letter. This is a letter by the USA. This is by the prosecutors. They're filing this into judge Allison , Nathan and asking they're they're they're trying to stop this attorney by the name of Robert Glassman from coming in. We'll get there in a minute. We have a minute entry that went in. We don't have any records for this one. There are two things here called a transcript. And so, you know, a transcript, people hear transcript there . We're we're talking about Glen Maxwell and you say, oh my gosh, a transcript, boy, that's gonna be juicy and it's really not. And then we have juror number 70 that we're gonna take a look at submitting receipts for their transportation costs . So real, real easy, real quick. Now I wanted to just share this with you. When I go into my federal , uh , pacer account, this is what I see when I'm looking up sealed the documents and sealed orders . Sealed records can see that when I click this, it says you don't have access to this transcript. This is referencing a, a , a proceeding that took place back on November 15th, but they will, this , this will be processed eventually. So here's what it says. You can go to a terminal and view it. Otherwise there's gonna be a redaction request that's due at the end of December 12, 29. And then there's a redacted headline set for next year. And then sometime in March, the release of the transcript re uh , restriction is set for March of 2022 . Do you see that? So we may actually see some documents in March of next year for some of this stuff, probably not, but maybe we also see here that , uh , juror number 70 is he wants to get reimbursed for those parking receipts. It's very expensive to park in New York, as I'm sure you can imagine. And he wants to make sure that he's getting reimbursed. And so judge Allison Nathan said, all right , your or number 70. I sure hope you brought those receipts, buddy. Boy, you better get those receipts associated with those costs over to my jury administrator. And then we'll get you reimbursed for those costs. Parking's expensive, you know, like 10 bucks an hour or something like that. It's lunacy. Okay. So this is the big letter. The big motion that the government it submitted, this was back on December 6th . And this is, this is all respecting the defense calling their experts or I'm sorry, presenting their case. Obviously that's gonna start next week on Thursday. Here's what the government is intending to do. You can see this letter is eight pages. We're not gonna read through it all. It's a lot of law. We're gonna fly through it, but I wanna show you what happening here. This is the us government. These are the prosecutors. They're now asking the court to stop the defense from calling Jane's lawyer. This guy, Robert Glassman, as a witness, they're intending to call this guy, Jane hired a lawyer. He went out, made a bunch of statements. They want to ask him about those questions. They're gonna try to, to bring him into court. So the government here is saying, you can't do that. This is all protected by attorney client privilege. This is that attorney. So this is Robert Hill. There's a new, there was a filing that he was a part of. And so he made these statements. You can see here, Jeffrey Epstein's the state lawyers accused of belittling. The alleged victims. This guy came out, made a bunch of statements. He said they have done everything that they can to make these cases as difficult as possible for the victims . So the victims feel like they've gotten no choice. Robert Glassman, an attorney for the alleged victim said he helped file a bunch of lawsuits and all this stuff. And so now what the defense is trying to do is call him as a witness, which is just like, you know, nuts. I'd be very mad if I were a lawyer and they try had to do that, you know, to try to sort of get me to testify against my, my own client nuts, but they're trying it. And so what the prosecution is saying here is that attorney, client privilege is , you know , uh , paramount. It protects everything and they go through, they give us an analysis here, but I , I wanna show you what the defense is doing. They're trying to call this guy. And so let's talk about this just in quick in , let me show you this on the mind map. I think I have him on here. Uh, yeah. So Jane this, so Jane member was the first victim. Jane was the person who was in the room, Epstein touched her. She was 14 at the time she got a $5 million settlement and she's been sort of, you know, involved in this for a very long time, comes from a very nice family, lot of rec , you know , lot , a lot going on there. Her lawyer in one of these other lawsuits is this guy, Robert Glassman . And so now what they're trying to do is actually make him almost a witness for the defense. He represented a victim, Jane, and now he's, they're trying to, they're trying to call him so that they can get him to testify. So this letter continues from the prosecution and you can see the general framework. They're trying to lay out. We have a brief discussion on this. Uh, first the defense argues at the defi , the , the , the advice that Glassman gave was not intended to be kept confidential. They're sort of rebutting that they say that by, by him speaking, he didn't waive any privileges over Jane's communication. And third, even if Glassman's statement to the government could waive Jane's privilege, the court should exclude it under evidence , uh , under rule 4 0 3. Okay. So sort of this three prong analysis that in , in , in other words, allowing this guy to testify would be so harmful to the case that the court should not allow it here is what it looks like signed off on by all of the, the prosecutors for the foregoing reasons. The court should preclude the testimony of Jane's council . And this is just the type of stuff that they're fighting about behind the scenes. You know, we see a lot of this stuff from the transcripts and from Twitter about the stuff that's going on in court, but this is happening on to a lower frequency now because we're in trial, but it's still happening behind the scenes over the weekend, we're gonna see a whole slurry of new motions. I just got pinged that there were new motions that were filed today. And so both sides they're not done for the weekend, they're gonna be going and filing all sorts of stuff. And so we'll have a lot more to catch up on next week, even though we won't be in trial, there's gonna be a lot of filings. I want to take a quick pause and talk about the media and the Maxwell case. Adam Cofield made a very interesting point saying to those people out there saying that nobody in the media is covering this stuff. Adam class field says, that's not really true, says , well , that's been getting wall to wall coverage. There's news organizations all over the place. And no one who's actually been here covering the case on the ground can claim otherwise. And that we have Ben fewer heard who's doing the same thing. Now, somebody else else responded on Twitter. We have Kate Brielle says, well, you know, perhaps there's a perception of a lack of news coverage because more than 90% of the reporters there aren't allowed to have cell phones or laptops and they can't tweet or talk about this stuff. Class field says, yeah. I mean, I I've been basically doing that, but there are other people who are busily reporting away. And so I, earlier in the week we got several people who said, yeah, what about this, this Maxwell trial tracker. And some of these, you know, these websites that are out there that just got canceled and Maxwell trial tracker , uh , apparently got canceled, but they are, you know, now back back on, but there's a lot of interesting things going on with some of this stuff. We've got , uh , this person on Twitter who was talking about this tracker trial. And he went through and was saying that they're kind of spreading a bunch of false information around, you know, that a lot of these tweets are not really accurate. It's got a big following and that it's, it's still promoting a bunch of misinformation and talking about the idea that in fact, a lot of people are talking about this trial, New York times is talking about it. CNN's got some articles, New York post is all over it. Reuters is all over it. So I just wanna , you know, sort of spread that , uh , around now, trial tracker, you know, this guy, if you would , if you wanna go read this entire tweet thread, very interesting saying that, you know , he sort of following , uh , kind , kind of bouncing around different trials and just sort of, you know, retweeting a bunch of stuff that, that the mainstream media is actually reporting. So, you know, I thought it was an interesting point. Uh, there is, there , there are a lot of people talking about the Maxwell trial. I don't think that there's a big conspiracy here by the media. I think that the media are beneath the conspiracy. They're not a part of it. Like all of this is way beyond the media. You know, they would love a very salacious, Jeffrey Epstein Maxwell story. They'd run all day with it, but they're beyond the , the purview. This is, they're not in that club. They don't get access to that stuff. So , uh , just the thought. Now, speaking of the media, this guy, the guy who burnt down the Fox news Christmas tree, apparently he was exposing himself outside the Maxwell trial, according to some photographer, New York post reported this, the guy who allegedly arsoned the Christmas tree that we all heard about guy's name is Craig Toma . HANA apparently was captured on camera moments after pulling his pants down to show his privates to members of the media. On the first day of the high profile trial of Epstein's girlfriend. This is according to a Gina moon, a freelance journalist. So this guy's out there exposing himself. I think the day after he was released for burning the Christmas tree down in new. So no bond, no cash bail, nothing like that. He's just a free man. He's out there enjoying himself. Apparently. So the Glenn Maxwell prosecution has arrested. Now their case in chief has come to a close. The question is they do a good job. Let's revisit the calendar for a quick minute. Shall we? We remember that the trial started on November 29th today, of course, is December 10th. Government has rested its case in a total of 10 calendar trial days, no trials on the weekends. And we know that yesterday on Thursday, the ninth, we have a sick day, so we can get rid of that day. We also know on the 29th, we had opening arguments. So we can mostly get rid of that day. We also know that some days jurors were late and everything, and you know, we didn't get started until nine 30 or 10. But if you set that aside, that gives us still really a solid four days of trial. We've got the sixth, seventh, eighth, the 10th 30th, the first, the second and the third. And you might say, well, that's a full eight days of trial there, Rob. That's a lot of trial there. And so sounds like that might have been enough for one of the most high profile international international trafficking, criminal conspiracies that we've ever seen eight days. Is that enough to , uh, get to the bottom of this little ordeal? Well, I don't know. You know, I'm just a defense lawyer. I'm not a prosecutor. I've never prosecuted an international , uh , trafficking conspiracy before. Think it might take longer than eight day . But what do I know? But I wanted to take a look at some other cases that we have spent a lot of time talking about first and foremost, Derek Chauvin . Remember how long that trial lasted. Hmm Hmm . We have eight days in the Glen Maxwell case for the prosecution to present their case. How many days did it take Derek Chauvin , the prosecution team there to present their case. Remember in Glenn Maxwell , we've got four victims. Derek Schoen , George Floyd. We had one Derek Chauvin . We had one date, time and location. Glenn Maxwell . We've got dozens, huh? Multiple states, multiple jurisdictions, federal court versus of state court, Jeffrey Epstein, billions of dollars, multiple women, multiple witnesses, multiple different law enforcement agencies, several different law enforcement agencies in the Epstein case, local law enforcement, the feds out in Palm , uh, Palm beach, Florida out in New Mexico, out in New York, complicated stuff. Eight days is all it took the prosecutors in Derek S Chauvin's case. They took 11. That case began on March 29th. They arrested in April 13th after just 11 days of testimony, they called 38 witnesses. One victim. Yeah, it was some medical . There was a lot of medical issues there. No doubt issues are complicated. So are victims. Okay . George Floyd didn't testify. The victims did here 11 days for Derek Chauvin for the government to make their case here eight. And so you say, Rob, that's not a, you know, a case involving victims or anything like that. Give me a better comparison. Okay. Here is bill Cosby's case. Remember bill Cosby. He was tried twice, ultimately convicted and imprisoned and then released on appeal. Probably the same thing that's gonna happen with Maxwell. But in this case, bill Cosby only had one victim. One. Her name was Kelly Johnson and their trial started on June 5th, one victim Kelly Johnson for the first time took the stand spoke. She testified on June 5th on June 6th , defense attorneys, June 7th cross examined her. We have prosecution then closes their case on June, June 9th . You see this here from June 5th to June 9th, one victim, the prosecution took four days, June TW , uh , 12th, the defense calls one witness and rest this case. Okay? So let's say that you can get through one witness in four days. Let's say , just say we used the Cosby standard, the government case June 5th to June 9th, four days to present one victim in a Cosby case here, we had four victim . So four times four is 16. We didn't take 16 days. We took eight and this is a little bit more complicated than one bill Cosby case. So it's , uh , leaving some people raising their eyebrows, like being a ma what's going on here. Why did they, they just cut it so short. They told us that this was gonna go well into January predicting, maybe six weeks of testimony. Typically the government takes the lion share of that. Maybe you break it up into four weeks of government present presenting their materials and then two weeks of a defense rebuttal. But we didn't get that at all. We didn't even get a full two weeks . We got eight days in the, one of the most high profile cases of all time. A lot of people thinking that the prosecutors have fumbled the ball on this. Let's see if you have anything to say about that. I forgot about our new polls form. Let's see what the polls, the poll says here. Oh yeah. Hey, we got some nos now. Right ? So we've got 75%. Yeah . Say prosecutors have fumbled. The goin Maxwell trial. That form is over there on , uh , on the YouTube link. We have 15% say they don't know 11% say no prosecution seems like it's pretty good. But most people here say it sounds like they can kind of botch this thing. Yeah, I think you're, I think you're basically right on that. Gabriel Sherman agrees with that. Gabriel Sherman's over at vanity fair, written a bunch of stuff all over the place. And he's wrote a headline, says the prosecution here is fumbling its case. This was yesterday. They planned to rest their case this week. They of course did. But he talks about a couple things that might be problematic on Tuesday. Prosecutors stunned reporters by announcing that the government intends to rest its case before Friday weeks earlier than anticipated all raises the painful question will Maxwell go free? He says he was dismayed prosecutor. Laura Palmer answer opening statements was 35 minutes long, 10 minutes, less than the government statement in the Elizabeth Holmes trial. Also underwhelmed that prosecutors didn't call a victim. First. They called off Larry Viki. The pilot who basically was like an Epstein victim, says he never saw any acts. The underage women on any of his planes. That was kind of weird testimony from Maxwell's alleged victims have been harrowing on Tuesday. Third accuser testified that Epstein abused her more than a hundred times when she was 14 . Carolyn recalled a lot of the testimony. She was heartbroken saying that my soul is broken, but prosecutors didn't ask her about any of Epstein's friends. Her testimony was only undermined by the seeming lack of preparation by the prosecution under cross examination . One of Maxwell's lawyers, pale Yuca exposed many inconsistencies in her prior comments pale EUCA noted. Carolyn didn't Mac mention Maxwell's name once during her first interview with the FBI in 2007, didn't even mention her name. Neither did Carolyn include Maxwell's name in subsequent lawsuit suits filed against Sarah ke Paka said you are two lawsuits involving Epstein. And ke they say nothing about Maxwell, right? Carolyn said, yeah, correct. Pale . EUCA said your deposition testimony in 2009, it also says nothing about , about Maxwell. Right? Other than the two words that miss Comey read, right? Carolyn says yes. So you filed lawsuits in oh seven. Nothing. You file another one in oh nine. Nothing. Why is that? Of course the absence of Maxwell's name doesn't mean it's true, but prosecutors should have been more prepared for that. He says there was a similar dynamic last week with Jane Laura Menninger, pressed Jane, to comment on why her testimony differed from her prior interviews with the FBI. Why the differences ? She seemed rattled by the questions at one point, alleging that the FBI incorrectly transcribed her comments. Oh , it's just a typo. Remember that? It's just a typo repeatedly on Tuesday. The government suffered another embarrassing setback. When Maxwell's defense revealed that Jane called her brother who was a government witness and complained about the cross examination saying that managering was a front like the door weakest play came though has been the lack of testimony from Epstein's innermost circle. Prosecutors haven't called Epstein's highest profile accuser, Guffy to the stand. Even though her name has been mentioned by multiple witnesses. Epstein's 2007 non prosecution agreement listed four of the alleged co-conspirators. We talked about them earlier on the show. Sarah Kell , Adrian Ross, Leslie gruff , and NA Marcy Cova Maxwell's. Name's not on there. All of those women could testify about the role. Why didn't they gain their cooperation? And if they didn't cooperate, why didn't the government charge them too? Good question. Vanity fair, Gabriel Sherman. They're listed in the, in the non prosecution agreement. You can see it right here. We go over to the Glen Maxwell, mine map and we zoom in on Jeffrey Epstein. These four women, we're all named in this non prosecution agreement. You can see them right here. It says specifically the United States agrees that it will not Institute any criminal charges against any of these people. Adriana, Leslie Nadia, Sarah Kell , including, but not limited to the way that I read that that includes Maxwell and the prosecutor, the government, whoever, whoever drafted this thing and authorized it and signed it and gave all these people a free pass. Who man. Okay. So this goes on. It's possible. The government may call one or more before resting, but Nope , they didn't nothing meaningful. Came out. The final question that we have comes courtesy of our boy, Mark Richards, the man who helped Kyle rid house become acquitted. He asks, he gets asked the question about testifying is Golin Maxwell gonna take the stand? Is she gonna get up there? Judge Allison , Nathan is gonna ask Ms . Maxwell, if she wants to take the stand to tell her side of the story. Typically we advise against that mark richer veteran lawyer who put Kyle written house on the stand says, yeah, I think she would do more harm than good. He said that if Maxwell decides to testify, prosecutors could confront her with the evidence of her ties to Mr. Epstein who died in jail. Allegedly Richard said, she's trying to separate herself from Epstein. At least now you can on a dead guy , which is a very stoop point. And other people are saying, you know , they're going through this analysis. We have , uh , Steven Gill's professor of legal ethics at NYU says defendants rarely overrule their lawyers. Sometimes they have an an E exaggerated sense of their ability to handle AZA aggressive government questioning. So yeah, very unlikely that she takes a stand. They're talking about it's it's likely it's gonna come down to the government's assessment of the, the defense's assessment of the government's case and so on and so forth. All right . And my friends, that was it. Then that's the update on Glen Maxwell, trial days nine and 10, the government is arrested its case in two chief. We've got the defense. That's gonna be preparing over the weekend and into the week next week because no trial on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, unfortunately, but they're gonna pick back up on Thursday and we'll be there to cover it. And I want to hear from you and see what you have to say about this over from our friends, at watching the Watchers dot locals com and let's see who is here and what everybody has to say about it. We got our poll here. Did prosecutors fumble the goin Maxwell trial? We've got 83 responses that say yes, 73% say yes. 10% say no 15% say don't know. Okay, so let's do this. Let's do a quick question. Change on this. And we're gonna , we're gonna change this briefly question. I think I can do this in real time . And we're going to say verdict on Glenn Maxwell trial. Let's see if we can do this in real time . We'll say , uh , all guilty will say all not guilty and we'll say split verdict. And we'll also say mistrial. All right . And so verdict now. Okay. And so we're gonna jump into the questions. And so those responses will now change. And so if you've already asked , if you've already responded, you you're free to respond again. We're gonna take a look at , uh, at what this looks like now. I think I might have, have to reset this. Hang on a second. I think I have to reset this. Delete all responses. Yes. Okay. So now you can do it again. So now you can, you can vote and uh, and then we'll take a look at it again. So we've got one, not guilty. All not guilty. We've got one. All not guilty. Oh , it's coming in already. Yeah. You can see it's coming in in real time . Got eight responses on this puppy. So here it is. Let's take a look. We've got split verdicts 23 responses coming in. All right . We've got split. Verdict is still in the lead. 43% of it with the split verdict. Mistrial says 10%. Yeah . Some he's asking about a hung jury. That would be basically a mistrial. So that would be like if they can't reach a verdict. Yeah. All right . So we're seeing some numbers change around here a little bit. We'll check back in. So we it's actually yeah. It's split verdict. So Mike might get a few of them . How many responses do we got about 76 response coming in. All right . So good. Keep on voting away. We'll check back in and see what at we're we're at sort of halftime. Now the government has, has stopped presenting their, their case. And so , uh, we'll have to check back in on it. Okay. Let's see what else we've got here. So my first note is to former LIO , that sent me a message about Kim Potter . I'll read that and we can talk about that later. Uh , C rose is here, says, Rob, do you think it's a good idea to have testify? My humble opinion. Goly testifying just opens the door to all kinds of problems. The jurors may not like her voice way . She says certain words. She may even get impeached on cross if the prosecution even, and tries thoughts. Yeah. Thoughts are, I would not put her on the stand at all. I think that there's no benefit to doing that. I don't think that she's got a good case. You know, sort of , if you have a bad case, you don't wanna put somebody up there to talk about it. If you did it, it's hard to put you on the stand to talk about it. See what happened to Jesse Small , the juiciest of the juicies. He did it and he got up there and he tried to fib about it. Didn't work out for him. Only hurts . So I think that's a big, no, good to see you see rose. We've got Sergeant Bob says, perhaps the prosecution did not wanna start the beautiful rich political people. Could there be a lot of behind the scenes influence? Yeah, I think that there absolutely could be. Perhaps the prosecution did not want to start involving the beautiful rich political people. Yeah. Yeah . Well, it's, it's Comey's daughter, right? That's what , that's the first thing that a lot of people think not implying anything, you know, nefarious going on there, but that's, it's , it's easy to jump into that conspiracy mode because of that, the Antica says, yep , totally following the science in that courtroom. Sorry, but I just need to get on a little rant again. When people would say that you should listen to doctors about mask I'd reply that I'll sure do what I can. When I plan on eating one, the letters MD do not stand for materials and dynamics. It's not a doctor's field on how particulates travel through the year and how they interact with different materials. This lies within the scope of people like myself who are expertise in physics and engineering. That's from V kiss prime. Are you trying to trigger a mass debate right now? They dragon says , why did the state not push the human trafficking aspect more? Are they trying to protect the clients? Yeah. I mean, there's there's do you know which evidence is in this trial? There's an entire black book of people of names. There's flight logs of names. There's a non prosecution agreement with names. There are lawsuits. There are hundreds of women who are claiming to be victims of this entire ordeal that has been going on for like three decades involving the most powerful people in the world. We got eight days of prosecution <laugh> they would pro cute folks. If your son or daughter got charged, got charged with a crime, they'd have no problem spending three weeks prosecuting your son. I've seen it happen. No problem. Three weeks, four weeks, no , whatever it takes, no problem at all. What do you have? He had a couple of , uh , illegal drugs in hi on his person. Oh my gosh. Well, we're gonna have to make sure that we devote all of our resources for the , this one here. We have some of the most horrendous evil allegations that have ever been revealed ever. And , uh , publicly that, that our elected leaders are sort of maybe a part of, and we get eight days of prosecution. Okay. So it's, it's a sad state of affairs. When you realize that this is, this is what our justice system , uh , looks like. Outnumbered mom says, well , while I would have liked to see more victim testimony to bolster the case, I do think it's favorable to shorten the case and not lock up the jury for six to eight weeks. We have to remember, they can see the jury. We can't, according to Joe, people are saying the jury looks annoyed and disgusted with the defense table. Well, that's probably, it's probably true. I mean, that's mostly how most jurors feel. So it wouldn't surprise me a minute. Soul Viking says it's so amazing how fast the trial has progressed and the deflection onto Sarah Kellen and others is not surprising in the end. It won't be enough to acquit GM. The mind map is pretty amazing. Thank you, Rob. Well, thank you, soul Viking. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'm having a lot of fun with it. Let's see, we've got 187 responses now on the , uh, on the verdict, 180 . Let's see what we've got. We've got four . Yeah . So we've got all not guilty. Whoa, man. That's a big claim. That's a lot not guilty who we got 30% saying it's a split verdict. 7.2. Say it's a mistrial 21.5%. Say all guilty. Yeah . That's, let's change it in real time. All right . So we'll check back on that. Before you wrap up for the day, we've got a couple other questions. Let's let's check over. What's going on on YouTube. We had some , um , super chats come in. VIP says unnamed co-conspirator Trump. How so? Uh, did I, is he on the mind map as an unnamed? Co-conspirator well, so that, so in this section, it's a good question. So in this section, I just sort of have people that were in that were sort of, sort of in the purview now, bill Clinton, prince Andrew and Kevin Spacey . I think that they were all in the flight log. So this could really be built out a lot differently. I haven't spent a lot of time on this section. I'm open to suggestions on this, right? Cuz you've got, you've got, you know, bill gates, you've got Lex Wener , you've got , uh, you know, all of the Hollywood people you've got , uh, everybody everybody's on this list. So I just kind of threw everybody on that list, but, but I'm open for suggestions on how to, on how to divvy that out a little bit more. But anyways , uh , come check it out. If you're a [email protected], you have access to the full mind map. Mark Owens is here with a 2121 says thank you for all that you do well, thank you, Mark Owens. Appreciate that. Thanks for being here. Hope you're enjoying it. I'm having fun. Kevin w says the judge is going to the white house for a promotion. The judge is going up. I think it's what circuit are they in? The second circuit? I think it's the second circuit over there. I can never remember my circuits. Let's see what it is. Uh , yeah. It's New York second circuit. Yeah. So it's the second circuit court Southern district of New York. And so she'll be going from the district level. I think up into that second Sur circuit, she's got a nomination to be an appeals court judge. So, so if Golin Maxwell is convicted here and she is uh, sentenced to prison and she appeals it, which she certainly will. And I think she's got an actually a very good basis for that appeal. Then this judge, if she is actually appointed to this second circuit, she might have to recuse herself so that she does not participate in the hearing of the appeal. Uh, let's see. We've got, Jessica May says, have you followed the dinger case? Oh my gosh. REM remind me of that one. Uh, Lee Chevron. Yeah, that guy. Yes. He just , um, didn't he just get outta jail? I think he's ma now back on home detention, he's there for like 180 something days. Good news. Yeah. I heard about that case. Another unbelievable one. Yeah. There's corruption all over the place everywhere you turn. I know it's I know it's a sad thing to real lies . Like two , like this is it. This is the culmination of everything. Four prosecutors, millions of dollars, FBI all over the place investigating Palm beach and the mansions and the New Mexico and everywhere eight day we're done. We're done. We had a sick day. We're done. We started at nine 30 every day also, but it's all we got now they might win. Right? They might be, it might be a total. She might be convicted on all counts. And maybe it's a big victory, but certainly feels like it's a little bit wanting. Doesn't it? All right . We've got some other questions. Monster. One says the more I hear of this Maxwell trial, the more I don't like it, everything is about Epstein. Nothing about Maxwell. Other than being there. If she is guilty then so is one and everyone else who worked there. Good point. Isn't it. Monster one. It's a pretty good point. Yeah. And they're trying to make it about her monster. One also says, are you watching any of the Kim Potter trial prosecution pulled a binger today when Mr. Wright was shot, did you see a gun in his hand? Did he have a grenade in his glove box? Did he have a rocket locker in the rocket launcher in the backseat becoming clear? They have no case. They were spending the, the wild time, the whole time talking about everything, but the actual shooting. Wow . That's interesting. I have not been watching any of the Kim Potter trial. Uh, honestly, I , I have not. I've been focusing all on go Maxwell and I know a lot of other attorneys are covering that one , uh , closely Viti kiss says, so all the other witnesses are going are good to mention at least one other person than Maxwell. Where's the ones that mention other something other than, other than Epstein. Yeah. So in other words, if you, if you then diagram this thing, everybody's in the Epstein circle everybody, but nobody's only in the Maxwell circle, right? Everybody's in even Maxwell, the stuff that Maxwell is sort of being alleged to have done here, it's all sort of connected to Epstein to some degree because they lost Epstein geo Mancy , uh , geo Mancy games is here. Hey, geo , Mancy , hope you're feeling better, brother and doing well. Glad to see you here says, I said this on Twitter, but with enough money and influence, you can buy pure evil. The sicker I get with my cancer, the more I see and believe the , that evil truly, truly exists in our world. Please continue to shine that big, beautiful spotlight on the corruption in our time. Also subscribe on YouTube geo Mancy games. As you heard from his comment, he is struggling and fighting cancer and doing a great job he's over on our locals community. And , uh, we're sending you our love geo thinking a lot about you. He's also on YouTube. If you are on YouTube, go over there. Subscribe geo Nancy games, subscribe on YouTube. I hope you're well , geo we've got PEY . Wally says, Rob off topic wanted to check in to say much love to you in the community. I'm going through some bad personal times. And uh , just now because of a loss in the family, sorry to hear that PEY , Wally , our thoughts and prayers are with you. My friend, you know, there's a lot of that going on right now. You know, my , uh, you know, not to not to plug it, but Erics is a good organization for people that have lost somebody. Maybe it's applicable to you, but there's a, a lot of grief and support groups out there. So I'd encourage you to reach out. If you're looking for help, I will be back in a week or two with my usual inputs from Scotland, have a great weekend all and take care. All right . So some extra love and prayers for peely Wally out there. If you have any despair, send some his way, we'll be thinking of you peely . And we'll see when you're back. Jeremy says, Rob, can you briefly remind us of the charge just brought in the laws of the prosecution are trying under Glen federal agent consent is 18 under trafficking law. I don't see how the age of consent New Mexico matters in this case. Act exchanging money makes it trafficking. The girls wouldn't have put themselves through this if they knew upfront what was going on. Yeah, but so the problem with that , with all of that, it's like, yes, they could have charged her with a whole slew of additional crimes. That is true, but they didn't. They charged her with the crimes that are in the indictment. And if the facts don't match , don't match the crimes that are listed in the indictment. You don't just get to say, well, what we really meant was trafficking. No, somehow this works. We have, these are the charges. This , this came down on from the indictment. Jeremy, if you wanna see the actual indictment, you can click here. There's a link to this , uh, on , on , uh , court and you can read through it and you can actually see what the factual background is and what they're claiming happened . Now in the indictment, you'll see these different things called counts. So her efforts to conceal her conduct, let's see here. Count two . Okay. Enticement of a minor. So here, they're talking about enticement of a minor. If this is the crime that has been charged, these are the facts of the crime that has been charged. If they can't prove this, they don't get to just change it. Oh, what we meant is actually , uh , trafficking of an adult to engage in intercourse. That's not what that's, that's not what that charge is . It's enticement of a minor. Well, guess what? Kate, wasn't a minor. Apparently she's not a victim of anything that was charged in this indictment apparently was the instruction. I don't know. That's why it's it . It's so important that they charge it correctly. You can win cases because they just MIS charge something and they don't realize it. So, and prosecutors know that. Okay. A couple other questions before we wrap up for the day we've got monster. One says the defense made the judgment mad. The judge mad. That's why she overruled them on that last question. It very well could be it very well could be also says you've never seen primal fear. Need a great legal movie. It's about a guy. Edward Norton love Edward Norton who kills someone, his lawyer, Richard gear tries to get him off on insanity. Won't tell you how it ends, but it has one of the best twists ever sounds. Pretty good. DJ McBride says from the testimony, it sounds as if miss farmer's sister at a minimum was an unindicted. Co-conspirator any educated speculation on why she wasn't indicted or called to testify? Uh, no, I don't. I don't DEI . I don't know why , uh , like a hundred people haven't been called to testify in this trial. <laugh> it's a good question. Uh , I don't know. Anybody's guess why she was been called or why any of those other co-conspirators weren't called or, or anybody else that's on the mind map from the Epstein wing. And we haven't even played with that. The mind map is really only about the Maxwell trial, none of the Epstein, 2000, any of that stuff. I mean, it's all sort of stuff that I've been gathering incidentally through the investigatory process, but haven't sought out to do that. I don't know why they're not being called to testify. Maybe we should ask Maureen Comey . The anti kiss says, I wonder what will be the end result of that list that the judge kicked back because of the too many redactions. We're just gonna see, you know, like a broken fax machine, just big pages of blackness monster. One also says, can we do Kim Potter? You can tell Thursday, probably probably could. Yeah. I mean, is that it I'll take a look at it. I'm open. Sergeant Bob says, I wanna see slick Willy Clinton brought into this, ignore the potential play on the words, pun regarding the Willy Sergeant, Bob Sergeant. I see what you did there. C rose says eight days for a prosecution's case in chief involving federal criminal charges of this magnitude of Goins . I'm very happy to see the prosecutors are seeking justice as their job . So requires. Yeah, they're doing hard work out there . Seas . They're getting out there fighting for justice, putting these traffickers behind bars, but they're tired. And you know, so two weeks it's like, Ugh , fine . Now we can finally arrest and let them go. So we'll be done here in three weeks of testimony, nuts, Sergeant Bob says, made the prosecutors. Maybe they're considering the lowest common denominator of the jurors. Cut it short. So as not to confuse part of the other real reason why they're cutting it short is because , uh , I think the judge precluded them from going down certain lines of testimony because of that age of consent issue, speech unleashed says, sounds like the prosecution has a better case against Epstein than it does against Maxwell. Not that I agree with Maxwell's actions or behavior, but it seems as if Epstein is their predominant offender and Maxwell was only involved here on occasions. Supposed have to see if the jurors agree with you. We have he , you last name Janus says yesterday, the Atlantic put out an article claiming that trafficking was a fake epidemic during the unfolding of the trial. Whoa, is this because Lauren Powell jobs, Steve jobs as widow owns the Atlantic, Lauren is best friends with Maxwell, which is true. I saw that on Twitter. I think I bookmarked that. Let's take a quick look at this. You know, Twitter now has very nice folders if you, oh yeah , here. This one is , um, if you , uh, buy Twitter blue, which I have Lauren Powell jobs , Steve jobs is widow and Maxwell having fun. Uh, they posted this article, apparently Caitlin , Tiffany, the great child trafficking ex uh , epidemic and there's Maxwell in a bathing suit. So , uh, that's fun. We've got that article. That's now out there. Wild wild times. Sergeant Bob says, juries are a crapshoot, no opinion on the verdict. You know that. All right , let's check in. Well , we'll check in at the end of the show, SDN, Y is corrupt says can't trust this trial. It's not livestream Southern district of New York is just trying to Epstein Golin Maxwell. We have , uh , DJ McBride says Rob would be interesting to ask a poll question and ask whether the pro execution has thrown this case on purpose. That's another good one. That's a good one. Maybe we'll do that. Should we do that. Now let's do that now, since we're on it, we'll just go ahead and do it. But before we do, let's take a look at the poll. All right . We got 357 responses now. And so we're gonna change this up and reset it real quick, but we'll take a final little screenshot of this just quick, a quick mark. So we're noticing that as the government has rested its case, this is what we have 67, 2 thirds are saying not guilty across the board. Pretty amazing two thirds. So we'll memorialize that come back and we'll check. We'll see how that we'll see how that holds up. And , uh, we'll, we'll do a quick reset on the question here. Let me do this. And so the question I think was, has the prosecution thrown this case on purpose? Let's try that one. Okay. That is coming up. Has the prosecution thrown the case intentionally? We'll say yes. And we'll say no. And we'll say not sure, just for those who want to answer, but are just not sure. All right . And so we, that change, we're gonna do a quick reset on this. Delete all responses and boom. We're good to go. All right . So has the prosecution thrown the case intentionally? We've got responses coming in. I think that we know what the answer on this one is gonna be. So , uh, it's an interesting question, but I'm pretty sure this is gonna be a one-sided answer, but we'll see. Okay. We've got Viti CAEs . Assange's extradition. The us was granted today. I saw that we can talk a lot. Asange maybe next week also we've got outnumbered. Mom says only way she'd take the stand is over the strong objections of her counsel . She'd be a huge liability to their case. She's so SMU. It could possibly make people think that that she think is , is a good idea. So yeah. So outnumbered mom is saying that, you know, she might be so arrogant and so ego maniacal that she thinks that she can get up there and convince everybody to come to her way of thinking. I agree with you. Uh , Maxwell is stupid. Is here, says is stupid. She should have fled the country with no extradition treaty someplace that has bad diplomatic relations with the us after Epstein was killed, has all the money from the estate could have lived her life comfortably. Now she'd get Epstein because of her stupidity. Yeah, well I'm who knows if she tried and wasn't able to do it. Um, Julian Asange is being moved to the us . It's been approved, assuming that is convicted. Now we've got Maxwell and Asange getting Epstein, grouchy old cat lady says, can they retry her again with more different victims? Yeah, they could. I mean, if it was a different date of offense and they, yeah. If it was a different ordeal, now they could do it. Cora says impressed with all the work you've done for this trial. Thank you. Also consider this my RSVP for tomorrow, which is amazing. You time that perfectly, because we've got only one more question left. Doug Ducey says, Rob, I need you to wear a mask more often. Well , I'm not gonna do it , Doug. And there's nothing you can do about that, buddy boy. So , uh, we had our question from Cora. Uh , Cora says that we've got a very nice meetup tomorrow taking place, and I hope that you will join us. It's Saturday, December 11th, from seven to 8:00 PM. Eastern time, that's gonna be 5:00 PM. Mountain 6:00 PM. Central 4:00 PM on the Pacific coast, but 7:00 PM on the east coast, seven to 8:00 PM. We always go a little bit longer, but join us. I'm gonna post a registration link [email protected] Join us. It's gonna be the ugly sweater edition and it's gonna be a lot of fun. In fact, I've got mine right here. This is it. I'm wearing it. I'm not gonna open it up and show you what it is. I actually don't think it's that ugly at all. I think it's pretty beautiful, but I'm gonna wear it. And we're gonna talk about it to tomorrow. So it's on zoom. Camera's on. If you want cameras off, if you want real name, fake name, doesn't matter. Say something. Don't say something. Raise your hand or don't uh, I'm gonna , it's gonna be about 90 minutes probably. Cuz I've got , uh , another thing that I have to do after that, but it's super casual. A lot of fun. If you're not doing anything else on a Saturday night, come by and say, hell , I wanna welcome some new people who joined our community. We've got Randy J 98. We've got Westworld. Equestrian girl is in the house. Richie DC , red Jersey, Nick dragon, things and stuff. Don 1 0 7, the vez we've got Jimmy w big T other bites, Kimmy cat three, Kevin ay and tar 24 queen of Tennessee. We've got re Lee music box lady , big Fanta , Gloria Black cat Meow . Nick MCLE Dr. Brenton , T Blake. More Patriot minutes here. Jay Markie . Kaney 79 Broon squirrel Ono five pal tester, 16 T Lama , Brad , Kenny H CFC star 55, Aldo, the Apache C , C G for job and rugger bugger. And that my friends, before we get outta here, we gotta check on that poll . Don't wait, but that is it for me for the day. Let's take a look at these numbers. Yeah. It's about what we suspected. Did the prosecution throw the case? Did they throw it intentionally 90% say yeah, they did <laugh> oh, well that's just a shame. Isn't that? Just a shame. 94 point 90.4% out of 167 responses. We've just got a small slithering 5% say no, they didn't Rob. And another 4% say we're not too sure about it, but thank you for participating in our poll. That's kind of fun. It's kind of fun and interesting. A new little thing to add into the show. All right . My friends that is it for me for the day. I will be back here on Monday. We're gonna cover it all again. Not sure exactly what we're gonna be talking about since max will . All's not gonna be in trial, but we'll figure it out and hopefully you are there to join us. One final reminder to check out our [email protected] We've got our monthly meetup taking place tomorrow. I would love to see you there. Mind maps are all [email protected] as well. Glen Maxwell, I'm working on Alec Baldwin. We've got Chad E shooting. I'm working on the crumbly mind map is already up and over there though, along with Glenn Maxwell . So if you want that, there's a lot of stuff cooking. Come check it out. Everybody. Thank you so much for being here had a lot of fun with all of you this week. Be well unplugged from politics. Get off the internet, spend some time with friends and family, get some exercise and some fresh air. Gonna try to do all of those things. We'll see how successful I am, but I hope to see you back here tomorrow. Everybody have a tremendous weekend sleep very well. I'll see you next week. Bye bye .