Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Day 8: Villain or Victim? Epstein Pilot Mr. Rodgers, New Photograph Exhibits

Day EIGHT of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial continues. The government is still presenting its case-in-chief. We review the day’s trial activity and other Epstein/Maxwell news, including:

🔹 New Exhibits beg the question: Were Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein a Couple?
🔹 VILLAIN OR VICTIM? Which story do you believe? Is Ghislaine Maxell the villain in this trial or merely a victim of Jeffrey Epstein?
🔹 New exhibits show Ghislaine Maxwell giving Jeffrey Epstein a foot massage onboard an private airplane.
🔹 Judge Alison Nathan issues interesting rulings regarding victim’s “Kate” and “Annie” and we review what is going on by revisiting the mindmap.
🔹 A juror has transportation problems, delaying the day’s start by 45 minutes.
🔹 Reporter @OneAddyAdds on Twitter details the mornings events from the scene outside the Thurgood Marshall Courthouse.
🔹 “Carolyn’s” former boyfriend “Shawn” testifies about his experiences during the time in question.
🔹 Mar-a-Lago Director of Human Resources testifies to confirm records regarding Virginia Giuffree.
🔹 Nicole Hesse, a former employee at Epstein’s Palm Beach residence testifies for the government.
🔹 Joe Nierman @GoodLawgic explains the concept of “double hearsay” as applied to Epstein’s former Employee Nicole Hesse.
🔹 David Rodgers, Epstein’s second pilot, testifies in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial for the government and we look at his flight logs.
🔹 Your comments and questions!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello, my friends. And welcome back to yet. Another episode of watching the Watchers live. My name is Robert grr. I am a criminal defense attorney here at the R and R law group. We're located in Scottsdale, Arizona. And today we're talking about Glenn Maxwell. She's still in trial day. Eight government's case in chief is still moving along quite nicely. And in fact, it's moving very quickly. They may be done tomorrow. What are you talking about? How are they gonna wrap up their entire case with four victims in two weeks, they were telling us this was gonna go well into January. We may have this whole thing buttoned up before Christmas. And so we've got a lot to talk about, which means we might have our very last victim tomorrow. And we've got a lot of interesting rulings about some of these victims that took place today. And so we're gonna have to do a little bit of a rethinking about some of the people that we've been talking about because the judge came out and gave us some interesting rulings this morning. So we'll get into that. We've got a ton of new exhibits that came out from, uh, the day priors to testimony from day seven. A lot of these are photographs showing Glenn and Jeffrey Epstein, you know, sort of as a romantic couple Glenn Maxwell and her defense team. They've been trying to paint this whole situation as though Maxwell's this victim. Jeffrey Epstein was the monster. Glen's just this nice little sweetheart who got caught of caught up in this whole thing. And she's a victim. These photographs tell a different story. And so as we go through the show today, be asking yourselves, is this a picture of a villain, meaning Gill Maxwell, or a victim as the defense attorney would have you believe the prosecution wants you to believe that she's a villain. Did the picture show that let's see? So we'll analyze whether partners or not. We've got a lot to dig into in the way of, of photographs of Glenn Maxwell, giving Jeffrey Epstein a massage on an airplane. We have to talk about it because these photographs are a real thing. And we're gonna get into that. We have a juror who had transportation problems this morning. We've got reporter one Addie ads, he's on Twitter. And he was giving us some details about the proceedings before they took place this morning. And then we dive right into the testimony. So we're still in the introduction here. I haven't even gotten into the day's testimony yet. Can you believe that? But we're gonna hear from Sean. This is Carolyn's boyfriend. We heard from Carolyn yesterday. Her boyfriend, Sean came out testify a little bit more about what he knows, and then we're gonna hear from a, a lot of different, uh, former employees, people from the, uh, human resources department over at me, Lago, who I think is still working there. And then we have a woman named Nicole Hesey. She is somebody who worked at Epstein's Palm beach residence, and she's gonna help connect the dots between a other names that are very important in this trial. Joe Neman, good logic is gonna stop on by his channel is also on YouTube. So if you're watching that here, check the description and you can tag it and go over to his channel. He's there in person. He's got some amazing updates, had an amazing update yesterday and we'll talk and hear from him. And then we wrap up the day with David Rogers. David Rogers is Epstein's second pilot. We already heard from the Saki who was the first pilot, right on in the opening of the entire trial. And now we're hearing from pilot number two. And so as you can see, boy, we've got a lot to get to. If you wanna be a part of the show place to do that is over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. There's a form looks just like this. If you are a member over there, you've got access to it. You also have access to our mind map, which we'll get to in a minute, but you can check out this channel. If you're looking for clips of the show, if you wanna rewind or share a different segment or say, Hey, what did Kate say? Or what did Carolyn say? Or what did Jane say? Then you can go back to this channel. Robert kruer Esq clips. And so we've got a lot to dive into. So let's just do it. Shall we? In day seven of the Glen Maxwell trial, we heard from an FBI special agent named Kimberly, met her. Remember we talked about her yesterday. Of course, right now we're in day eight. But a lot of the exhibits that came out from day seven are now public. And these are being leaked all over the internet are not leaked. I mean, they're publicly available. I should say they're being published all over the internet. This was a court sketch from one of the photographs. One of the romantic embraces between Glen Maxwell and Jeff Epstein. What a nice couple. Oh, isn't that sweet. And so we get a lot of these photographs are now out and publicly available. And so we're gonna go through some of them. And we're gonna ask ourselves a very important question. Number one, is it something where we're seeing GoLine Maxwell as a villain, where she is the person who is responsible for a lot of the horrendous things we've seen or is she in fact the victim, this is a big issue. This has been one of the themes that the defense has been hinting at. We've talked about their opening theme, memory, money, and manipulation. What's the manipulation while it's the idea that Golin Maxwell is a villain who's being manipulated well, the other victims are Jane, Carolyn, Kate, all of them are being manipulated against Maxwell. Who's also a victim. So the defense is saying that she is in fact a victim. She's part of this whole entire victimhood crew. Everybody's a victim of Jeffrey Epstein. Whereas the prosecution is saying, Nope, these two people are partners. They are two peas in a pod. They are in cahoots, they are ying and yang. And so as we go through these photographs, we're asking ourselves, why were all of these admitted? Why, why are we going through these photographs? Why are the prosecutors spending so much time on this? It's to answer that question, villain or victim, if the prosecution, if the CLO in, in the defense, if they're closing argument is just wrapped around this idea that goly Maxwell is a victim and she was dragged the law, kicking and screaming throughout this entire ordeal. They're gonna remind the jurors about all these photographs. And so let's take a look and, and see what you think about these. We're gonna start with the redacted photos. Remember yesterday, when we were going through the Palm beach residence that we saw a lot of this, we saw photographs after photographs just spread all over the place. And many of them were redacted. You can see right here, a lot of faces, somebody's driving this car, redacted photo, somebody sitting in his lap, who is that don't know we've got Jeffrey and Glenn kissing here. We have some architecture photos of a couple residences or, you know, uh, uh, locations, everything else on the table's blacked out. So it could be, you know, names, uh, or, or, or, you know, famous people could be family members could be victims. Who knows? We see though, same thing here, another closeup government exhibit 2 52 R we see almost everything has been redacted when the detectives and the crime scene investigator, when they turn the corner and they go back into this closet, we see this exhibit 2 82 R everything on that wall has been redacted, kind of a weird wall behind a door. You open up a door and you have a wall of certificates that are just sort of hanging there, I guess, not sure what that is about. And we can't really zoom in and see what's going on in this photograph, but some sort of a drawing with a diagram, separating two people, sort of a, maybe a small child, or actually it looks like a skull and bones, skull, and bones, the distance between the skull and bones and something else, weird stuff going on yesterday. We also looked at this part of the residence. We saw all the, the names of a bunch of different books up here. We saw, it looks like Pedallers, the Pedler is up there. We have by the wayside, we've got something by Murdock. Uh, deceit is very appropriate book here. People are taking a closer look and analyzing that. The bigger issue which we talked about yesterday, of course, is this box full of hard drives. We know that Epstein was burning a lot of these photographs that said, you know, uh, sele, AV photo shoot, or whoever that is, you know, on these discs. And he had just, you know, uh, this is back in the 1990s. And so he is got, you know, huge, uh, buckets that are filled with CDs and then runs outta CD space. So now he's gotta turn over to the hard drives and that's what it looks like. And so if you recall yesterday, big portion of the testimony that we reviewed was photographs, photographs, photographs, photographs, and is very frustrating, even for the people who were there, apparently because they couldn't see a lot of this stuff. And it was, you know, sort of being, uh, uh, kept off the public viewer, uh, viewing room or not available to be seen easily. Anyways, these are the photographs that we're talking about. So you'll see this lovely couple. We've got Jeffrey Epstein and we've got Maxwell, couple of little love birds out there. Just taking a stroll out in the snowy Mead. You've got Jeffrey Epstein here in a, uh, full red jumpsuit. And this looks like they're kind of partners. Doesn't it looks like they're in a nice couple, uh, you know, kind of in a nice warm relationship. Uh, sweetie, let's go out for a nice stroll. That sounds great, honey. And all right, perfect. And so he's got her his hand right on her belly and they just look like a happy couple. We see that Jeffrey's in a full red jumpsuit and we see this one's a little bit more romantic. Don't know who's taking these photographs looks like at some time ago. And so, you know, this isn't the era where everybody's got a camera on their smartphone. This is, you know, somebody's, I don't know if they're taking photographs or somebody's just having fun, but it looks like a couple to me. I mean, I don't know about what you have to say about that, but yeah, it looks kind of like he's into her and like she's into him body language, right. He's okay. Hey baby, what's up? And it just continues on, we see another photograph looks like a nice couple riding around. She's not being, you know, uh, you know, carried around in chains or anything like that looks pretty voluntary to me riding a Mo here they are, looks like flying an aircraft. And so she's all buckled up. Don't know exactly where they're going. She's got a little bit of a buzz cut. This looks maybe like it's a little bit more recent. This is her on a boat, another government exhibit. And so they're showing this is not just gratuitous, right? This is not just going through photographs, just because people want to peer inside and say, well, what's going on with go and Jeffrey, this is a, this isn't a tabloid somewhere. And this is what their show. They, they were hanging out. Maxwell was on his boat. They were literally, you know, just Puting around the water. She's lounging all over the place. She was integral to this entire scheme. Here. They are at a tux, you know, gala, whatever. And I don't know what she's doing or what she's wearing, but ladies and gentlemen of the juror here, they are again, not an isolat incident. They even have a plus one. They have a real good boy in there. The only good boy in this photograph, they're out there and they're taking a photograph and they're hanging out again. Nice outfits. He's got a turtleneck, got some ear protection on, might be out doing some shooting. Don't know, but it's couple stuff. They're out there venturing around the world. Okay. We have another one they're out visiting. This is exhibit 3 33. And you can see he's smiling. She's smiling. Looks like they're a nice couple. Okay. This is her on an aircraft. Now. Now we're gonna start to bounce around a little bit. She's flying on the aircraft government exhibit 3 37, got a good old USA flag on her arm. Looks like a little bit older photo here in three 17. And so you can see some of the, you know, some of these are, some of these are a little bit newer. Some of these are older. And so they're showing this is consistent over decades. These two had a relationship flying all over the place, traveling on boats, everywhere you turn. These two are together. And that mirrors a lot of the testimony that we heard. We heard from Juan Alessi, you know, lady of the house, they were always together. They were inseparable and the photographs tell the same story. Here is another one. We've got three 18. She's hugging and kissing on Epstein. We have another one. Don't know where this is. He's got a big hat on his head. Don't know what that is. Maybe they're over in, uh, you know, the Ukraine, not who knows government exhibit 3 0 4, we have special trips. We have special poses. This is Epstein now. And taking a photograph in the exact same spot that apparently the queen took a photograph here. She is pictured with a cabin with her friend, Margaret Rhode. They're sitting in the same sun exposed spot that Maxwell and Epstein enjoy it. Right? So they're going out and taking photographs and doing all sorts of coupy stuff. Very cute. Here's another photograph. Now this, you know, Jeffrey, this looks like a little bit more, uh, recent photograph. And so he's sort of checking out of the relationship at this point. He's like, yeah, I'm on the phone. I'm trying to schedule my next massage. Can you just leave? Yeah. I'll take the photo. All right. Are we done? All right. Yeah. So anyways, as I was saying, he's busy. Butlin still wants the photo. You know how that goes? Here's another one he's kind of over it. Body language is changing a little bit, sort of saw that over here, but these two pretty coupy aren't they, then we get to the aircraft photographs. Now these are the photographs that, uh, a lot of people are raising their eyebrows over because it is, uh, interesting. You see a little bit of, uh, exposure from, but because this is a family show, we're gonna use the vomit emoji to clean this up a little bit. And so you can see what this photograph is. This is submitted in front of the jurors. Now, if you're a defense attorney, you sort of make a, a different argument from this. You know, these photographs are happy couples. Uh, this photograph is, uh, not so much, you know, maybe it or they're having fun. They're, you know, they're having fun with this because she's putting his foot in her chest in other words. And, uh, they zoom in on this one and it looks like now Epstein has the camera. Okay. So Epstein has the camera. And he is this sort of like a joke thing, like a humiliation thing, like rub my disgusting feet or what, or they're just joking around, you know, they're having a couple cocktails that are having fun. They're a lovely couple. And, uh, it's very, you know, it's just a fun day on their airplane who knows. Here's another one. And so now the, you know, my question of course is who's taking the photograph on this one, actually, who's taking the photo. So Epstein's taking this photo, this photo, somebody else is taking, Epstein's got this one. Somebody else is taking this photo. Golin sort of opening up a little bit now because this is so horrendous. And this is a family show. Here is a sketch of, uh, this is the PG 13 version of it. And it's a pretty good sketch. I mean, she hit that pretty good, right? Like that's the photo, that's the sketch. Pretty good, very talented. Okay. And then we see somebody else is on that airplane. This is a French modeling sketch out. This guy is John Luke Brunel over from France. And, uh, he apparently has come under scrutiny and was charged by French prosecutors back in 2020. So the French are going after this fellow or, you know, I haven't followed up on what that story is, but government exhibit, uh, 3 43, you can see now Maxwell is joking. He, Hey, John, Luke, look at what I've got over here. And he's like, uh, not, not a fan of that. No thanks. And so now he's been charged in France and, you know, Epstein's kind of jokey over it. So it's hard to, you know, it's hard to really make heads or tails any of this stuff, right. You could, they're just joking around just a couple of, uh, uh, you know, knuckle heads up there, very sexual everywhere they go and, um, their partners. But why is Epstein laughing at her flashing a friend? You know, I don't know. Is that something that you're cool with your significant other doing? I don't know. So we have this photograph and, you know, apparently when, uh, this photograph was out a court reporter or somebody or a sketch artist was able to get a glance at what Lyd looked like. This is what she looked like in court today. So she had the, the little bit of the squinty eye going on. She's looking at the sketch artist. Think<affirmative> yeah. You saw that. What'd you think about that? Or she's embarra? I don't know what that look is. It kind of reminded me of this guy, this young man kind of right. Like I just kind of got busted. I don't know. All right. So, uh, you know, that was that meme where he's like you looking at me. Yeah. Did you see that? Yeah. Glen busted. So, uh, massaging Epstein's feet, and those were just the exhibits that were released yesterday. Then we get to testimony in Glenn Maxwell, trial day eight. Now we see walking into the courtroom and we're gonna have to deal with a couple of issues regarding these victims. Remember there were four victims that were named in original indictment, and there's been a lot of back and forth about these victims. And we're gonna have to break that down. So before we do, let's take a look at what the scene look like in the courtroom. So once again, Maxwell is being, uh, joined by two us marshals. And so they escort her in as they do every day, sort of like, you know, the men in black or the women in black, in other words, as they open or make sure that she doesn't, uh, springboard out into a, a, a Israeli helicopter. And so we've got the, a Maxwell here. And as I say this, I say this time and time again, time and time again, but here body language hugs. Soon as she walks into the court, everybody sees hugs, hugs, hugs, hugs, touching, touching, touching. She is not a monster. She's a nice woman is what she's trying to convey. And it's every day it's every stinking day, right? They, they make a very big point of it. And so she gets in and remember, we were talking about these various victims, and remember, what's been so difficult about this trial is that we're using pseudonyms. And we can't really identify who's who, and, you know, put names to faces and make connections between all areas, people. And so, as we were listening to testimony back when Kate was testifying, this was on Monday the sixth. We were reading this from Adam class field over@lawandcrime.com. He's the editor over there. And this was when Kate was coming in and he said, okay, the judge came out and said, this specific, the judge says the next anticipated witness is Kate. She's. One of the witnesses against Maxwell. The defense was arguing that she was over the age of consent. And so there are arguments about the scope of her testimony. So then there's a back and forth. Something happens. And judge Nathan comes out and says, ladies and gentlemen of the jury talking about Kate quote, and this is being reported by Adam Feld. Who's there says, quote, I instruct you that the witness is not a victim of the crimes charged in the indictment and you're going, what? I remember reading that we talked about it on Monday. Okay. And so class failed says, okay. So even though Kate was one of the four accusers I'm gonna now, I guess, refer to her as a witness now, cuz I thought she was one of the victims, but judge said, no, um, she's not, I mean, instructing you ladies and gentlemen of the jury that she's not actually a victim of the crimes in the indictment, you know what is going on here? Okay. So then Nathan instruct the, that Kate is not a victim of the crimes that were charged in the indictment. The government has been instructed not to testify about the details of any contact with Epstein of a certain variety. And that's weird. So why is she testifying anonymously, pseudo anonymously using Kate and she's gonna come out and she's gonna be kind of a key government witness, but they're not going to be able to consider her the victim of any of the crimes in the indictment. So why is Kay testifying at all then? Well, we suspected it was because of the grooming analysis. Remember when we were talking about this on the mine map, this was a screenshot from a prior version of the mine map. The mine map is, uh, still growing every single day we add to it. But previously when we were doing our analysis, we put Kate down here. If you recall down here in the corner, we didn't list her as one of the minor victims. Why? Cause we just read this. It said, I instruct you. She's not a victim of the crimes in the charged in the indictment. So even though she was one of the original four accusers, she's not a Vic, a victim. This is according to judge Nathan. So we couldn't put her over there. But I, but guess what turns out? I think she is actually a victim here. She's just not somebody that kind of counts. Okay. So now that we understand this, let's take a listen and see, or let's take a look and see what happened today in court. So now we're having this battle, where is Kate? We get this weird instruction about her. She kind of testifies as though she was a victim, but in the indictment, you know, she kind of doesn't fit in there under the, the facts of this case. And so now we, we fast forward and now we're having a, a new conversation about Kate eight and now we've got, uh, uh, uh, Annie, who's coming up here soon testifying tomorrow, and we're gonna have a similar conversation. So attorneys on both sides are filing motions back and forth. Are these actual victims? Are they victims of certain? Uh, remember we were talking about dates of birth and age of consent and birth date, birth certificate stipulations, and all that stuff. If somebody is over the age of consent, then this is no longer a, a conspiracy involving a minor, at least to that victim because they're not actually a minor, are they? And they're charged in the indictment as a minor. This isn't about adult, you know, abuse. It's about minor abuse. So if, if it's different than what's in the indictment, doesn't fit. That's, that's a dismissal of the charge. They can't prove it. So we get back here today. This is out in class filled again, keeping us updated, says, judge Nathan is about to rule on her limiting instruction about Glenn Maxwell's last accuser. That was Kate. She said that Epstein made contact with her in New Mexico. Uhoh guess what? New Mexico has different age of consent laws. So the judge comes out and says, all right, I'm gonna tell the jurors that any of that, that took place in New Mexico is not illegal sexual activity. See the judge saying that not illegal sexual activity. So this is gonna be for the last accuser. I'm sorry. This is for Annie. This is not for Kate. This is for the last witness who's coming up tomorrow. Call last field continues. He said, this is a less sweeping instruction than the other one provided for Kate whom the judge told the jury was not a victim of the crimes. So unlike Kate, the judge says, Annie is an alleged victim of the crimes charged in the indictment. So now we've got four different victim who have been named, but we have some that are like full victims and some that are like half full victims. Let's see if we can break down. What's going on. Kate was 17 at the time above the age of consent in all the jurisdictions, the witness Annie was 16 at the time, which was the age of consent in Mexico. But pro shooters are now saying that she was groomed in other jurisdictions. So how can we break this down? Let's take a look at the mind map because we're gonna want to take a look at how this is working. If we remember that in the indictment, if we go over to the important documents, we've got this superseding indictment and we've got here all, all the different charges that are delineated out, we've got conspiracy to traffic, minor victims, 1, 2, 3, and four minor victim, number one, enticement again, conspiracy to transport 1, 2, 3, and four. And you can see different victims are connected with different charges. So if one of these victims is not actually a minor, well, then they weren't actually, you know, they can't fit within the purview of the indictment. And so those charges cannot, cannot stay. So in other words, if Kate was not actually a minor, well then how could she be somebody who is a victim of trafficking of a minor or of a transportation of a minor or of a conspiracy to transport a minor? She can't. So the only thing that maybe they could bring her in on would be like a conspiracy to traffic or something else. And remember that these perjury charges, they're also not being charged in this trial. This is not about that. So it almost looks like when we go back over to the victims, now Kate is kind of not really a victim. And Annie is also kind of not really a victim because as we see from the, the, the activity involving, you know, any, any physical activities is not illegal in New Mexico, that was the judge's ruling. So you kind of only have now sort of two full victims. Two victims were everywhere. You look, they were in fact under the age and you've got two victims that don't have any limiting instructions on them. Otherwise, the judge is limiting the, the, the testimony, Annie was 16. She was groomed. So you can get, you can use her on the grooming, but not on the sexual activity. It was not illegal. Like the government charged she's already been found, basically not guilty of those of that. According to the judge, it was not illegal activity as charged in the indictment, as you saw it in there, incorrect, interesting stuff. Okay. Then trial actually starts inner city press reporting. As usual, Nathan comes out, says, uhoh, we're gonna have to wait for a juror. They've got a train issue, delayed. I'm gonna step off the bench. Clerk says all rise. And the juror finally shows up 45 minutes later. Uh don't you hate that when a train is late and 45 minutes late, I mean, 40 minute late train don't they come like every eight minutes or something. Anyways, we wanna take a moment to pay our respects to those people out there who are boots on the ground in New York city, covering this trial and working their hearts out. I wanna pay particular attention to this fellow here. One Addie adds over on Twitter. He's working his butt off. If you're not following him, you should follow him. He has updates. He posts these two minute updates, multiple times a day. Very, very good follow, very good takes, but he gave us an update, said, Kevin Maxwell seems like he's avoiding the medias day. And he wants to support those people who are there. So do I. And so he was there and he's been there every day and he said, man, we got started really late today. And he gave us an update on how things look from his perspective. Here's what he had to say. Okay guys, I

Speaker 2: 26:06

Know people were worried cause I wasn't tweeting this morning. Uh, but uh, again, I did had trouble sleeping last night, so I had a lot of trouble waking up this morning. But again, some someone quit that some woman from the public came and turned off the sound, uh, when I went into the overflow room this morning. So I got there and they hadn't even started yet. Uh, so that was kind of interesting. Uh, and uh, on top of that, I think, uh, Mr. Maxwell is avoiding me. Uh, he snuck out before lunch, at least an hour or so before. So, and he actually went the opposite way, the media doors kind of right around the corner here, um, over there. So, uh, looks like he's trying to avoid the media maybe a little bit more so we'll, we'll see if we can get him out, uh, leaving the trial. Uh, later this afternoon, haven't heard if they're gonna do a press conference, uh, at all after today. Uh, but again, Maxwell did not hear anything back<laugh> from the authorities about improving Maxwell's, uh, his sister's, uh, state of condition, uh, in prison, which, uh, is not surprising again, that's par for the course, us prison system needs to be, uh, uh, reformed, uh, to say the least. Uh, but again, uh, she's not getting special treatment like, uh, her brother seems to, uh, want, uh, and, uh, I noticed I wasn't the only one that was late today, uh, right before lunch, uh, maybe an hour or so before a bunch of people came in. Uh, so that was, that was interesting. Uh, you know, but again, I'm one of only a few people I can count on. On one hand, that's been here every single day covering the whole trial, right. Uh, and, uh, I'm only human one man show. Uh, I did see Maxwell live tracker. He got their account terminated. Don't feel the too bad about that. Uh, again, they were just drifting off, uh, what I've been doing, what, uh, these other reporters here who are actually doing stuff have been doing, uh, and, uh, he just drifted switch his, uh, Twitter profile from the written house trial to the Maxwell trial. Uh, again, those people aren't even here, Posics not even here. He's, uh, spreading disinformation, uh, all those big YouTube guys, Robert griller. He does great work. Uh, I, I know, but you're not even here, bro. I'm here. Eddie edge is here. Uh, shout it to inner city, press shout to Joan Newman. Who's uh, who's awesome. Doing awesome work as well. Very few people here actually doing on the ground boots work. So for support stay frosty will see everybody, uh, after the break.

Speaker 1: 28:25

All right. So one Addie ads on Twitter, all love for him, really appreciative of his work and Joe and inner city. You know, there's a, there's a lot of guys you're really putting in a lot of time. It is grueling work to sit there and take notes and listen to a trial all day it's it's really, you know, trial. When we condense it here, we sort of synthesize it and talk a about the highlights, but it's a lot of dead time and a lot of waiting and sitting around there. I mean, it's a lot of work. And so guys like him and Joe and inner city, they're there every day. And so my hat's off to them, all love to them and, uh, you know, hopefully, uh, you know, hopefully they continue to do it and we can continue to, to sort of boost their signal when we can. Uh, and you know, and if, if any, anybody literal, you know, if one Addie adds or anybody else has any issues with me, you know, using some of their stuff, just let me know and I'll stop no issues about that at all. I would just rather sort of, uh, re re uh, boost your signal rather than read from Bloomberg or from Washington post or something like that. So I'll up. I hope, I hope you don't take any offense to it. Uh, I appreciate it. So, right. So we've got his report. We've gotta look inside the courtroom. Here's Galin Maxwell. Don't know who she's talking to over here. And we've got a, uh, a starting line of testimony here from this person named Janine. This is Janine Gill, New York post, and Ben Erhard Tamir Lappin. They're over there reporting. Uh, we've got, they're telling us that court has started after a slight delay. Same thing that Addie just communicated prosecutors have called their next witness. And it's gonna be Janine Gill. And because she's not a public figure, not too much that I could find on her. He is the director of human resources at me Lago, or she is, and she's expected to authenticate records related to Virginia Roberts Guffy and Roberts Guffy, Virginia Guffy of course, was the same woman who sued Maxwell and Epstein. And as part of that defamation lawsuit, there was a deposition that took place and Guffy sort of was responsible for bringing some of those perjury charges that reappeared against Maxwell. And so this person is sort of laying down some foundation because we need records related to Virginia Roberts Guffy for other purposes. And so that's kind of all she gets brought in for not, not too much there that is ultra compelling, but we can see here that they're also making a connection between Guffy and her father's sky. Robert. So remember it's Virginia Roberts Guffy. So she kind of hyphenated her last name. And so when Janine Gill from mayor Lago comes in that's Trump's place, Trump's name keeps coming up in this. I mean, everybody's very excited when that happens, thinking that somehow he's gonna be implicated. Haven't seen anything to that effect yet, but a lot of people in the media excited every time, anything in his orbit comes into fruition. Gil testified on Wednesday that a man named sky Roberts was hired to work. The, this is back in 2000. In other words, sky Roberts went to work for me Lago. When, when it was the year 2000, he was a maintenance worker, made 12 bucks an hour, and prosecutors submitted a birth certificate showing that GRE's father is sky Roberts, sky Roberts, the worker for me Lago<affirmative> Roberts Guffy, the daughter of sky Roberts. Okay. So you can see the connection here. Testimony continues. Inner city press says the assistant us attorney, believe it's Maureen Comey. She comes in, says, how long have you worked at Merlago? And Janine Gill says 15 years long time. So they go into exhibit it's 8 23 R it's redacted for the public. So they'll publish it, but it's gonna be redacted. It's a personal action. Notice. It's the hiring of her father, sky Roberts, April, 2000. See how this testimony goes. They get him in. They're gonna be able to now connect him to Guffy and maybe get some of those records in inner city tells us yep. That's what they wanna to establish the hiring of sky Roberts. Then Bobby stern Heim comes out. This is go Maxwell's defense lawyer and says, all right there, Janine. So I mean, you can, you, you can be here and authenticate this record, but you don't know anything specifically about the hiring, do you? Correct? I don't know anything specific about that particular hire. This was 2000. It was 21 years ago. I've only been there for 15 years. Don't know anything about at that particular hiring decision. No further questions. Next witness. We get this gentleman. Sean comes out, Sean is the boyfriend, or was the boyfriend of Carolyn, Carolyn. We heard from yesterday. And so, because there's that relationship there, they're gonna continue to testify, pseudo not anonymously. And so here it is Sean. Once again in court identifying different photographs. Here is Jeffrey Epstein testimony continues. Judge. Nathan starts it. Okay. This witness ladies and gentlemen is only gonna testify as Sean. This is to protect the anonymity of the prior witness, Carolyn and I'm reminding sketch artist, no exact likeness in any of the drawings. Witness stands up. I'm Sean S H a w N. That sealed exhibit has my full name. So ladies and gentlemen, you can see that Comey says, okay, Sean, how old are you? How far did you go in school? Tell me about what you do with your life. Well, I'm 38 years old. I've completed some college and I'm a salesman it. And what was the name of your first girlfriend? If we were riding the clock all the way back, Carolyn, he says I was 17 years old and she was 14. We dated back then for four or five years, she worked at Arby's and she also worked for Epstein. And how did she meet Epstein through Virginia? Uh, Roberts. And we just heard from the preceding witness who talked about me Lago and sky Roberts Comey says what's the difference between Palm beach and west Palm beach. Sean says, uh, money Maxwell's lawyer scream. Objection. You can it say that sustained, implying that people in Palm beach or west Palm somebody's got more money than somebody else Comey says, did you go to Palm beach much? Sean says, no, I didn't have enough money to buy anything in the gas station. There. Bunch of rich people out there in Palm beach prosecutor, Comey says, all right, well, how long did Carolyn stay in Epstein's house? When she went over there, Sean said an hour or you know, an hour, five minutes. And when she would go over there, can you tell me, you know, how were those sessions set up? Uh, Sean said, well, they would call my phone, Sarah and lady with a foreign accent. They would give me a buzz. One was English. One was almost French. I'd get these weird people calling. Okay. And they'd set up the session. Direct exam continues. When you were dating. Carolyn, did she mention anyone else? She did, but she couldn't pronounce the first name of that person. Wonder who? That could be? Probably G hi Lonnie. Who's here talking about her. Did she get a gift? She did. Yeah. She got stuff from FedEx. Things like lingerie and a movie stuff from New York. And did you go to Epstein's with anyone else? Yeah. Uh, Melissa and Amanda Laslow also went. And, and how old was Amanda when you saw her go to Epstein's house? Sean says 15 lawyers scream out. Objection. He doesn't know that he can't prove that. I'm sure that was sustained. How old was she? I don't know. I guess was, it was, uh, overruled. How old was Melissa? Oh, no, this one, this one goes in. How old was Melissa? Okay. When she went to Epstein's house 16, she came out with$100 bills. And Sean, I gotta ask you this before you go. Were you arrested in Louisiana? Sean says, yeah. For what? Well, possession of meth and a felon in possession of a firearm. Fortunately, now I'm recovered and now I'm a salesman. So drawing the sting, as we say, getting those bad facts out, knowing the defense is gonna come out and say, you're a meth addict. Don't aren't you. And you're also somebody, when you were a convicted felon were in possession of a firearm and you got charged with a crime for that also. Right? So Comey's gonna just get that out of the way right now, cuz it's gonna look a lot worse if they talk about it and she didn't talk about it. So then we get very brief cross examination from Jeff Paka. The G is silent, like lasagna he's out now. All right. P says, Sean, you went to Epstein's house in 2002, right? Yeah. And it was Sarah who called you and gave you her name, right? That's right. Talking about a name. Sarah. Sarah called you and you her name, huh? Paka says. And you met the government for example, in 2002. And you said the accident was French didn't you? Well, I mean, Sean said it, well, it was foreign and that's the testimony that we get. It wraps up after that. Now we see, as we continue on that, some of the pieces are gonna connect a little bit further, but let's take a quick look at that mind map. Shall we? Because we have this person here called Sarah and Sarah was a name that we have heard previously when we were looking at that Jeffrey Epstein non prosecution agreement. And so let's pull this puppy up. If we take a look back again at these minor victims of which some are not actually in fact, Kate doesn't seem like she's a minor victim at all. Neither does Annie. We got Carolyn. Carolyn is in this relationship with this fellow called Sean. And he's talking about somebody called Sarah who used to call and set these things up. Well, remember if we take a look at Jeffrey Epstein and some of his other victims, we've got some other names that have been floating around in here. But if we go back to that 2007 non prosecution agreement, you see this name right here, Sarah ke oh, that Sarah name just popped up. Wonder who that was. That was one of Epstein assistance back in this non prosecution agreement she's listed right here. Sarah ke Adriana, Ross, Leslie GRA and Nadia Marcine. Cova now take a look at these names. This has all been public as part of the government's non prosecution agreement. We see foreign a on here. They're all listed. I just showed you the document because Mr. PA Yuca is gonna talk about this again. And you can see some people are popping in here. We got Jackson in the house, guest seven S here, guest threes here. If you wanna go in and dig around in this, you're welcome to do that. If you remember@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com, you can come and call, look into all this and zoom in and zoom out and do whatever you needed to do. But if you're taking a look, you're gonna see we've got Sarah Kell and three other women listed here as named co-conspirators. This is gonna come back up in Maxwell's case. So when we're talking to Sean, who is the boyfriend of Carolyn back then we can see that Sarah ke was calling Carolyn as Jeffrey Epstein's assistant. We have it noted. She had a Rolodex of women. She would apparently call them to just line'em up for massages for Epstein flew hundreds of times on his I Jetta LTA express and another another person named, uh, well, we'll just leave it at that. Okay. Now we'll so we've got that. Now we have back here from Jeff Pako. That's the end of our line of questioning from him. And we jump into our next witness. This witness in is Nicole Hesey, Nicole Hesey or HES is a Palm beach employee. And she is being examined by Allison Mo us government prosecutor. She worked for Epstein back at the Palm beach residence. That's what that residence looks like. That was in the original indictment, sort of his main center hub for all of his nefarious activities. She worked there in the early two thousands. Talked about taking phone messages at is Palm beach, Florida mansion when he was not home. Okay, so let's break this down. Epstein's not home. Nicole Hesey works for him. Somebody calls, she picks up the phone. Hello? This is Nicole. This is the Epstein residence. How can I help you? Somebody tells her something. She writes it down pretty simple, right? Pretty simple. So something that we have done a million times in our lives, but this is the court of law. So it's not ever simple. She says it was go Maxwell. Who instructed her on where to jot down the messages. Prosecutors also add had her authenticate, a sealed exhibit, showing someone a call to the estate in August, 2000 from somebody named Carolyn the same name as one of the Maxwell's alleged victims. Ugh. Okay. So we've got two people named, uh, Carolyn now has the same name. Somebody called in there's a sealed exhibit showing that that person called in. So it sounds like what we're trying to do now is connect the chain. We're trying to physically connect one person to another Epstein over to, you can see it in the mind map we can and the mind map's not up to date. I don't have today's, uh, stuff in it because I was preparing for the show. But you can see it's gonna go from Carolyn to Matt. He would get the phone call from Sarah, who would give him the inch instructions. Epstein Epstein was in a close relationship with Maxwell who presumably helped to recruit Sarah. So all these pieces are being connected and the government's just trying to connect the dots. Carolyn, somebody has one of the same names as one of somebody else who called that state. Okay? Why is this a problem? I know this sounds super simple. Somebody calls in somebody else answers the phone. Somebody says something to the person who's answering the phone. That person writes a message down. And then that message is, is submitted as evidence. And that message is supposed to be symbolizing. What the person said, isn't it. But you have this game of telephone. That's taking place, sort of like when you, you know, you see the kids in the circles and they say, uh, you know, little Johnny ate an apple. And by the time you get to the end of the circle, it's, you know, uh, Mary had 37 puppies or something, you know, it's like, what are you talking about? And everything gets distorted. So it becomes less reliable when you're passing a message along a number of different people. Joe Neman, good logic who has been doing amazing work covering the Maxwell trial, recorded this video for us here today, giving us an update on this witness and on the problem as it exists in the law here is what he said today. Hey,

Speaker 3: 44:35

Robert, your viewers are probably familiar with the term hearsay, but few of them are likely very familiar with the concept of double hearsay. And it seems possible that members of the defense team may be a little bit unfamiliar with it as well. Allow me to explain. So during the course of this morning's testimony, one of the witnesses brought to the stand was Nicole Hesey. She served as house message as the house master in place of Juanes. When he quits running the, the home down in Palm beach, part of her duties included that there was a message booklet, which she would record who called when they called and messages that they, they left on various dates and times, and she would sign, she would sign it herself when the state aimed to bring in some of those messages, the defense objected on the basis of hearsay. And they even properly said pointed out that even if there's a business exception here, that it's a little bit similar to police statements, that we can't really trust the initial statement, but they didn't taken any further than that. And they didn't use the term double hearsay. So what is double hearsay? Well, there's actually two steps of hearsay that are happening here. First, if we're tracing backwards in time, what this message book is telling us is what was recorded during the regular course of events. Now, the business exception to hear say can knock that out. And in other words, we're looking at this message booklet, and we're saying to ourselves, can we trust that? What it's saying to us is accurate. And under the business exception, we say since it's normal course of business, that there's an exception under the rules of evidence and say that that is, that overcomes that hurdle, but it doesn't, there's a second level of hearsay here, which is the information that was received by whoever answered the phone. That information is another level of hearsay. We have no way of knowing the reliability of the people they were calling. It could be me calling and I say, I'm Robert ruler. It could be anyone calling and giving false information. And that was never really laid out by the term double hearsay to the court. And the court ended up admitting this evidence and potentially seeing this, how it corroborates Carolyn's claim that she was working in servicing Epstein for a couple years. It could end up by the defense only Tom will tell that's all I got gold speed,

Speaker 1: 46:52

Lovey Joe, amazing or amazing. So he explained that very, very beautifully. And it's a complicated legal concept and it's difficult to make heads or tails of it. But to, to reiterate what he said is you've got several different things going on. So let let's, let's break this down at the base level. When we have a trial and we have witnesses and, and evidence coming into the trial, because we have a complicated thing that we need to solve a problem here. We wanna make sure that the evidence, the testimony, whatever is being submitted is reliable. It's relevant. It matters here and it's reliable. We can trust it. So there's a concept called hearsay. If it's an out of court statement that is being made to offer the proof of the, the truth of the matter asserted, there's all sorts of rules about that because it's an out of court statement. We would much rather prefer because it's a lot more reliable an in court statement. If somebody said that X Y you know, uh, a person X murdered person, Y it's way better. If we have person that person who made that statement come into court and say it in court, because that gives the defense the opportunity to cross-examine that person we get to say, we get to challenge their reliability. We get to confront the accuser and say, yeah, you say this happened, but isn't it true that, so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so that's what the cross examination part of all of this is all about<affirmative>. So if you have out of court statements, the general rule is sort of, well, you don't really let those things come in and there are exceptions to that. So for example, if you have sort of a, uh, what's called an excited utterance, if you just say something, you know, out of, out of the blue, maybe the court will consider that to be reliable, and they'll let that statement in because it was an excited, utter. So there's an exception for that all sorts of different exceptions and things that are not considered to be hearsay. And, and it's a very complicated rule that a lot of attorneys really struggle with. But what Joe is talking about is layers of hearsay here. So again, we have several out of court statements, not only do we have hesey's written record, which she wrote the, the message on which is an out of court statement. So it's coming from her mind onto a notepad. That's an out of court statement. They're saying, well, it doesn't really matter because it is a business record. She was an employee there. This is a part of her duties. So that's an exception to the hearsay rule that still makes that record reliable because it's part of her business duties. She's not inclined to lie. She takes messages all day long. So we can say that that's reliable, even though it's an out of court statement, it's gonna be reliable. And we'll let that in. What Joe is talking about is even another layer, the message that she wrote down, who did that come from the person on the phone. They're not in court either. They're not coming in to testify. You don't get to cross examine that person. And so what they were communicating to the employee Hesey is also hearsay. So that's a hearsay message that she's writing down, which is her hearsay, which is now coming into court. And apparently Maxwell's attorneys didn't catch it. So, Joe, I can't believe it apparently to Bobby stern, Heim on Maxwells team. He posted this on Twitter, gave us an update a few hours ago, says when we broke for lunch, I spoke personally with Maxwell's lead defense attorney. Can you believe that says find out what I advised her and why I, so I guess if you want to know what, what he talked to her about, you're gonna have to go over his channel. It's tagged in the description below amazing channel. He, he had a great update last night, doing great work. So go give Joe a follow and he's helping Maxwell. Can you believe that he's helping a monster like her? What kind of lawyer would do that? What kind of lawyer would help criminals? What a monster. Unbelievable. In fact, well, you, you can still, you can still go and subscribe to Joe, even though he is helping Maxwell. I mean, I can't believe it. We'll talk about that later. Thank you, Joe Neman for the incredible update. Now T continues. Let's dig into the actual transcript from inner city press. Here's how that testimony unfolded next witness. She worked at Epstein's Palm beach residence. This was back in 2003. What was your job there? Says prosecutor. Moe. Mrs. Hesey says, well, it was to take care of the home. I was hired by Maxwell. She was the lady of the house. As we heard from Juan Alessi, she starts testifying. Judge gives the jurors their morning break, but we we're back. There's another sealed exhibit Mo asks in this sealed exhibit. You're looking at, do you see that somebody named Carolyn called Epstein's house? Yeah, I do. Now that we're looking at this sealed exhibit, it says Carolyn, doesn't it? Yes, it does. And that's all we got out of that one. So we see the connection. Somebody named Carolyn comes out, Maxwell hired her, her several different people called Sean was the boyfriend who introdu, who made the connections from Carolyn to Sarah. It's all coming together. Next witness comes out. We've got Adam class field tells us his name, David Rogers. This is the last witness of the day. We'll dig into him a little bit further than some of the other witnesses. He was another quote, chief pilot for Jeffrey Epstein for more than a decade hired back in July of 1991. And we've got Comey, the daughter of X, FBI, director, James Comey. I told you she's never gonna, it's always gonna be that. In fact, she should just put a comma after her name, Maureen Comey, the daughter of X, F B I director James Comey. Just make it, put it on your business card, get it over with. Okay. So Mr. Rogers is now here, Mr. David Rogers, Mr. Rogers takes the stand, says, who did you work for? Uh, until 2019 prosecute says Jeffrey Epstein as a pilot since 1999, I was hired in Columbus. Ohio did it for a long time. We take a look at his record. Now this is not part of the trial record, but I, I plugged David Rogers into Google. And, uh, this woman's blog came up, Christine Negroni. She dug into him a little bit and was able to pull up his FAA administration documents posted this counties over in Palm beach, corrective lenses for vision airline, transport, pilot, but all in all a pretty good, you know, a good record. And she made a good point. She said, Hey, you know, if all these people are being investigated for trafficking and conspiracy and all these different horrendous offenses, well, why are the people who are actually doing the traffick who saw all of it? Why have they not been prosecuted? Why have the pilots not been indicted for actually moving the bodies from one part of the world to the other part of the world? She goes through and says, yeah, look, they've all got perfectly valid licenses, not even a problem at all. And so we're gonna hear that a lot of this has been redacted for, or the purposes of the trial, but Christine Negron was able to pull up some of these logs and she makes a couple of good points in these logs. You can see here that we have the pilot's signature looks like it's this guy. So he's here now. David Rogers signed off on that number of different names on here. You've bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, a Columbia former president. We've got Andres Pastrana, New York hedge fund operator, Glen Dubin model agency, John Luke Brunel. We saw a picture of him earlier in the show, flights all over the place, us international hopscotch, all across Europe, north Africa, and Asia. And you can see that in this document that some of these, you don't even know what the names are. One female, one female, one female. Who is it? How old sort of just, I don't know, kind of trafficking in females, maybe. So if this guy is doing that and he knows that if he's seeing illegal and problematic activities on this airplane, shouldn't he do you something about it is what some people are arguing, but he is taking the stand just like VI Saki. He says the same thing. Maxwell's number two, just under Epstein. She is in fact, the lady of thes talking about their relationship says early on, they were romantically involved, but saying later, uh, they weren't kind of broke up. You know, all those pictures they saw, they had a falling out testimony continues. He now turns to the passenger manifest. What we just looked at. Most of this is all redacted. Don't see almost any of it, but he says he also kept a personal log book. So in addition to what we saw, he's asked, what's a log book. It just shows you the day you flew destination, you went to basic stuff like the time and et cetera. So the government of course, is talking about those log books that we just talked about. They enter and now a sealed and a public version of an exhibit. And so we'll probably get that exhibit tomorrow. The ceiling is now being done to protect various witnesses, Rogers. Again, the pilot, he continues. He describes flights all over the place, went to Teton burrow, New Jersey, Teterboro, New Jersey presumed to be a stop for Epstein so that he could go over to the hou townhouse. Inner city press gives us a little bit more color here. Says we flew mostly between his houses from 91. He had a smaller plane. Then he had a Gulf stream. Then he had a Sesna 4 21. Then he had a Boeing 7 27 upgrade Comey says on the Gulf stream, what divider was in there? Uh, a door always closed, never open. And I did keep a log book and we're offering the log book as an exhibit. So inner city report says that that log book is actually shown on the screen. And it has an, the entire column of the passing name, redacted or blacked out. So presumably talking about this, basically all of this, uh, actually we can't see any of that yet. Passenger name redacted. He asked the question, is there really a reasonable expectation of privacy for flying on the private jet of a pedophile<laugh> uh, prosecutor says, how would you find out the names of the passengers? Roger says, well, sometimes we'd be told, would you always know? No, we wouldn't. As we saw, they're just listed on there as a female. You don't need to know, write down one female. That's good enough. They break for lunch. Long break. Jury comes now. Maxwell is in a red sweater. She Sid over to her lawyer's ear whispered in her ear. Here's what that looked like. You can see her in her red outfit. Mask is off at the moment talking to it might be Paka. I'm not sure it might be a us Marshall behind her sitting here. We got the rest of our team. Of course in court with her jury. Finally makes it back. Prosecutor, Comey picks back up and says, all right, Rogers, please turn in your binder. We've got government exhibit 12 without saying the name out loud. Don't say it. Is that the name of the passenger on Mr. Epstein's plane as yes, we go back to sealed exhibit 6 62. It's gonna be on page 44, flight number nine 16 here. Uh, Mr. Rogers, who drove the passengers to the plane in Palm beach. Oh, Juan lessee. Remember our Pawan housekeeper for Epstein. So all of the different parties are now coming back. They go through the flight logs one after the other Comey says, how about this flight? Well, that one was from Palm beach. We went from Palm beach to New Jersey and Jane was on that flight victim. Number one testified early on in this trial, identifying the actual trafficking. This flight. We have this date, this time, this location on this plane on this number, you were flying it from Palm beach to New Jersey who was there. Jane checked the trafficking box. There you go. Are there others on the flight? Yeah. Okay. Let's go to another flight. Who else was not disclosed? We don't know who else is on there. Big blank in the testimony they picked back up. How about this one? Flight eight. 18. Oh, well that was from van NA, California, over to Santa Fe. New Mexico only Jeffrey was on that flight going through one after the other flight after flight. Finally. How many times do you remember Virginia Guffy being on there? Virginia Roberts. How many times she fly on that plane? Roger says 32 times. It's a lot another connection to Guffy and come says, well, how about this flight? This one was, uh, over to St. Thomas. I have a question about this one was Epstein. Well were Maxwell Epstein and Virginia Roberts on there. Roger says, yeah. And there was one other person on that flight, right? Okay. Let's move on to another flight that additional passenger undisclosed don't know who that is. Don't get to find up. Testimony continues and you can see that they're just going through one. After the other prosecutor says from Spain to tan, Morocco list goes on and on Guffy, there was on the plane, a total of 32 times. Other people flew all over the place. And Jane was also on the flights. We learned a little bit more about these people. Some of the acquaintances that came out during this testimony, this fella guy by the name of Glen do been, he is a billionaire hedge fund manager. His wife is named Eva Anderson Dubin wild story on this one. If you dig into this story by Lee brown, you can see, I just clipped the headline here. Apparently this woman, Eva Anderson actually dated Epstein for 11 years until the early 1990s. Then fast forward, she, you know what something happens. They break up, she reconnects with this guy, Glen Dubin head fund. Billionaire turns out Ava's like this supermodel extraordinaire that was, you know, queen of Sweden or something. I don't know. And she dates Epstein Epstein. They break up then Epstein. After she he's married to this new dude wants to marry the ex-girlfriend's teenage daughter who calls him uncle Jeff. What is that? His daughter. Why is she calling him? Uncle Jeff. And why does he wanna marry, uh, the daughter of his ex? What? All right, so this dude is just like, why? I mean he's out of his. Okay. So you can read that story if you want to. Anyways, we've got Marvin Minsky's also on this list. Uh, he also came under hot water. He's an MIT professor. Apparently he died back in 2016, no longer around, but he was over at MIT known Epstein. Epstein associate apparently was involved with Virginia Guffy. So, uh, man, just, okay. So back to inner city press let's move on. Cross examination happens. Christian ever Dell comes back out. Sounds like he might be having a little bit of a tough time here as we wrap up the day and he is now cross examining the pilot. He says, all right, Mr. Rogers, sometimes the pick door would be open and you could see the passengers. Isn't that right? Yeah. That's correct. And you did that sometimes, right? Yeah. So you did actually open the door and you would see the passengers and all that. Right. So you testified on direct exam that it was always closed. Didn't you? I did, but that's not exactly true. It's not always closed. Right. Right. Okay. Just wanna clear that up. Thank you. Maxwell's lawyer says, and you never found in the cabin, any toys or cucumbers or torpedoes or any sort of, uh, squashes or anything like that? Anything that was used, right? No, I didn't. I didn't see anything like that at all. And Maxwell's lawyer ever Dell says, and you're a pile it, I mean, isn't it common to own private planes through companies. Yeah. And it's kind of like a one company per plane to limit liability also, right? Yeah. They go on a break. Judge sends them on their afternoon break and we come back. Class field gives us a difference side of the story says that Epstein's ex-chief pilot. Rogers is now back on the stand. Like Epstein's other pilot. Roger says never saw any problematic activity. And also never even saw anyone who appeared to be unaccompanied minors. Didn't see, it goes back through his log book says, yeah, Virginia Roberts was on there 32 times. Jane was on there also including on the flights to the airport and where'd they go, oh, interlock in art school, over in Michigan. Learned a lot about that place. This is the same academy that Jane says that she met Epstein and Maxwell. So all the pieces are now coming together. Maxwell's lawyer says to Rogers. Hmm. Uh, Mr. Rogers, you know the real name of Jane don't you judge Nathan says careful without saying it. Roger says, yes<affirmative> I do. And ever Dell says, Hmm, but didn't Epstein also have an assistant with the same first name as Jane's real first name though. Didn't he? And Roger says, yes, this is another way of outing or docking is what he says. Uhoh what's going on here. Well, this would be very confusing. Fortunately, we have a mind map. We, we can take a look at and sort of break this down here. So we've got, he is now talking about Jane and in this conversation about Jane, which is the first name victim she's apparently on this airplane pilot, number two says I flew her all over the place. Jane has a actual, real first name. Okay. We know what the first name is. If you take a look, if you look on the internet, you can find it in two seconds. It's everywhere. We know what the real first name is. We also know that Epstein had another assistant with the same first name we heard previously from Carolyn's boyfriend, that one of Epstein's assistants was Sarah ke. These are the named co-conspirators. So there's probably a pretty high likelihood that one of these ladies here has the same name as Jane, which she does. And so once again, you're seeing how the jurors are, are gonna get a lot of details about this we're being told, oh, they don't, they can't see anything. They don't know any, they are getting a lot of details about this. And this is just sort of being allowed to fly recall yesterday, that Paka said the last name of Carolyn in court and on I think day one or two, when he was doing the, the cross examination of Jane, he actually said her name in court. So the jurors are getting a lot more than even we're getting, uh, obviously, obviously they're getting a lot more than we're getting, but they're being, we're being told that everything is highly redacted and that, you know, they're act actually all of these pseudonyms and things like that. It's just a nice little facade. A lot more data is leaking through to the jurors than, uh, maybe the court would be inclined to, uh, admit. So you can see the different connections here. Jane is now somebody that we know from test testimony today that has the same name as somebody who is one of the, or, or, or another one of Jeffrey Epstein's assistants, probably one of these people. And it turns out that that is true. So we see that ever Dell continues. Okay. And Eva Dubin over here, the woman that Epstein wants to marry that the woman that, that Epstein dated, but now wants to marry her daughter. Ava was on flight and her HUD husband, he's a hedge fund manager, right? He was actually an Epstein client. Wasn't he? Roger says, I don't know, ever Dell continues his cross and says, okay, so these trips to Columbus, Ohio, that's where Leslie Wexner lives. Right? The owner of the limited. And I think that's the same guy from Victoria secret. Roger says, uh, yeah, it is. And Mr. Wexner is a billionaire, isn't he? Jeffrey Epstein's client. Yeah. Roger says, yeah, he is. And every Dell continues. And finally, we get to Annie farmer who presumably is gonna be our last victim that we're gonna hear from tomorrow inner city press the says, and you never saw Annie farmer in your planes or your logs, did you? No, I did not. And after a time I thought it was, uh, Adel says he, he sort of chimes in, oh, I thought it was later than it is. Judge Nathan says, now it just feels that way. This is dragging on forever. Ugh. But the point here is ever, Riddel says you never saw Annie farmer on your planes or your logs. Did you? So we have Jane that we get from this testimony, but nothing about Kate, very little about Carolyn testimony wraps up Maxwell's lawyer. Adel says, okay, now, Mr. Viki, uhoh, that's not, who's testifying it. Mr. Rogers, judge Nathan corrects him. It's not Mr. Viki. It's Mr. Rogers, Adel sets out an uncomfortable laugh. We see this fellow again. He comes right back out. Uhoh sorry about that. And so we start to wrap up testimony. That's the end of it for David Rogers. And we get some scheduling orders here. Now this is very curious. What's going on here at the very end of the day, inner city press report says, judge Nathan says, I would prefer not to do the charging conference on Friday. In other words, in nine days in case you don't have a case going on that day, given the, maybe we can use Friday for charging. They're talking, scheduling, Nathan says, uh, I'm comfortable letting the defense begin its case on Thursday. That's in eight days, one week from tomorrow, the result may be that the jury has this Friday off as well. So in other words, so I, it's hard to tell what's gonna happen with the, with the schedule. I don't, no prosecutors still have one more accuser to call they say, and may rest their case as soon as tomorrow, which is what the New York post is reporting. But over here, it sounds like it's not gonna be they're they're not gonna rest or start the defense until next day. So don't really know. Now this is a very curious thing that's happening here? Why is the government accelerating their case? We, we heard that this was gonna be a six week case and it sounds like they're sort of cutting off a lot of their testimony. They're consolidating their case. And the, the question that I had of course was why, why would they be making this late minute change last minute change? And I think the obvious answer is because of those rulings that the court gave in terms of the victims. Remember that we talked about this at the start of the show. When we were talking about the different victims here, the different witnesses, we've got a, an instruction from the judge that says specifically about Kate, not a victim of the crimes charged. The judge said that specifically. Okay. So if they can't, if, if she's not a victim of the crimes charge that are in the indictment, there's not much that, that they need her to testify about. Her testimony is basically a whole lot less relevant, cuz she's not a minor anymore. And the court found that. So Maxwell, you know, as far as I can tell is basically not guilty of any of these charges, unless I have this, unless I'm reading this wrong same type of situation with Annie farmer. If Annie farmer's case is now only limited to the conspiracy to the grooming, because she was actually over the age of consent when this was taking place, according to New Mexico law, and she's sort of like a half victim. And so now we have two victims that we're working with, Carolyn, who is not that great of a victim, schizophrenia, methadone, opioid addict, all sorts of, of money seeking behaviors. The defense has already beat her up pretty badly. And Jane didn't testify all that well either. And we know that Jane had some problems with calling, uh, Laura Menninger from the defense up front. And there was a whole series of, I don't recalls from Jane as well. I don't recall. I recall. I don't recall. I don't recall. We talked about that on day one, so you can see what the defense is doing. They're just sort of, you know, uh, whittling away at each one of these victims. And if they can't consider Kate to be a full victim, if they can't consider Annie to be a full victim, while their testimony gets narrowed down considerably pretty quick. And so maybe they don't need to talk about all that stuff. All the people who are gonna come in and you know, they've got sort of a mind map of their own going on everybody else. Oh, we've got Rebecca and Richard here. They're poking around looking at the mind map. We're reading some of the notes on Kate you're on YouTube.<laugh> be careful. So, um, so take a look at the mind map. There's a lot more data that's in there that is, uh, available for you. If you wanna browse around@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. Let's see what you have to say about trial in day eight for Glen Maxwell, from our friends over@watchingthewatchersdooutlocals.com. We had some super chats come in here at the start of the show. Janet Hunt says Maxwell trial tracker Twitter account is suspended. I saw that. I don't really know what that was all about. You know, I was following them. You know, I'm not somebody to show, to throw shade on any anybody else, but it, it wasn't giving a whole lot of good new information as some of the other accounts were. So I'm not real sure, you know, that that's a huge loss as far as I can tell. But, uh, but yeah, interesting. You know, I don't know what they did. I don't know if they were, there was sort of a, of accounts that got banned. There are a lot of sort of, you know, anyways, good luck to them. Janet Hunt is here. It says my first thought of Maxwell's looks are she looks like a rhymes with bunt, a whole bunt cake or something that rhymes with front. As Jane said, when she was talking her brother on a prior day, Mar Z pan with no question about a nice donation. Thank you, Marzi. And then we have Dr. MB is in the house with a very generous donation as always doctor you make my skin turn red, fantastic job as usual team, much appreciated. And thank you. Well, thank you Dr. MB. Very, very nice, very generous. And let's see what our friends@localshavetosayoveratwatchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. I have to, uh, change this screen here and here we go. Here we go. Equestrian girl is here, says and, and welcome equestrian girl. I saw you just signed up grateful. You're here, Rob. So I'm curious with you being a defense attorney. How do you think the defense is gonna play this trial after the prosecution is done and their witness, since they said they'll be done this week, I'm curious if they're gonna make lane look like a victim or how you think this is gonna happen. Do you think they're gonna put her on the stand? No, I don't think that they're gonna put her on the stand. That would be not good. I don't think that we're gonna see that at all. Uh, and I think it's gonna be what we were talking about earlier. Equestrian girl, villain versus victim. It's going to be the government's job to make it her look like the villain. She was the mastermind. She was the person, the brain's behind this operation. And it was a lot more her fault than the defense would like you to believe. They want to make you think that this is all just us, a big she's a victim, not the villain. And I think we'll see that theme continue to evolve. Monster one says 6 0 1 start time. Tardiness is unacceptable. Please report to the principal Epstein's office for discipline. Oh, I'd rather just jump out the window, which I probably would do. Thomas binger says Kyle, when Rosenbaum chased, did he have a plastic cucumber? Did he have a cylindrical object? Did he have a twin torpedo? Did he have a triple torpedo? Did he have? And the list goes on and on poor Thomas binger. Wonder what he's up to these days. King K says Rob greetings it all the accused in treatment. The plane side to me wants to agree with Maxwell's brother regarding restraints and other concerns. However, the frosty side says hell, shortcut it and strap her to the chair with intravenous something. Ooh, seriously, though, your opinions are honorable and should be enforced even after imprisonment and guilt. Justice should not be cruel. Perhaps looking at how Norway's handle crime should be reviewed her true should be uncensored in direct. Let the shadows fault. Thank you for all the hard working time. You are a force of positivity. Well thank you, Kincaid. I think that about you. We have Melinda says Billy took the photos. He all always loves pressing buttons. Bill gates was on there. Sick. Well, probably true. He has the anti kisses here says let's, uh, Rob press the right buttons. There it is says the trial trackle account tracker account. Hasn't been mentioned. It's a Twitter account that was reporting updates on the case. It's been suspended. Hamley from the quartering. Did some research, made a video. There are a lot of fake accounts claiming to be the same thing. I know the legal process is supposed to operate only on information that's relevant. That's presented in the courtroom, but there's so much blatant covering up around this whole situation. Even operating under the, that premise. You have to ask yourself what happens in both sides are really the same side in the end. No one is an island. There's such thing as a completely isolated system. The idea of keeping things out is only ever gonna be as strong as the opposing forces opposing. It are weak. As much as the idea of keeping the jury jury's knowledge, isolated is ideal in many situations. I think the reality is that becomes detrimental in others. Just wanna throw that out there, get your thoughts and responses to that. Even with all that, when it comes to the idea that this trial is can completely on the up and up, I press X to doubt. So yeah, I mean, look, I, I don't like anything that is not open and, uh, transparent. I mean, trials like this, where almost every stinking thing is under seal and this, this is a very special circumstance, right? These are, these are, this is a multi-million dollar defense. This is a multi-million dollar prosecution. It is a multimillion dollar investigation. This is, this is a trial that is uncommon, right? I mean, even with other cases you can call in and all sorts of stuff. So yeah, I have a problem with it. Vient because, I mean, I think it's just, it's a little bit too close down for my liking more, you know, and I understand having to balance the pros and cons of privacy and due process and a, and a fair trial. But I also think that if you balance it, you know, if you balance the factors in this case, it, this is way too closed down for my liking Antica says, I don't think Epstein is taken. The second foot photo looks like it's being taken from a perspective of the seat. That's empty in the first photo. That's from the anti kiss with another perspective. Thank you. My friend, uh, soul Viking is here, says great emoji for Jeffrey's feet and rack. Nice work, Rob. Haha. Well thanks. I, I thought it was appropriate. Rad says, Hey, I saw that mind map on CNN. Good work, Robert<laugh> well, uh, Hey look. As, as long as Chris Cuomo, didn't take it. Oh wait. He can't. Oh, Georgia peaches says, Hey Rob love the way you read with attitude. When looking at some of the photos on his plane, someone else doesn't need to be there. I think she used a timer on her phone and one of the photos it appeared Epstein was napping. LOL bet. There were some sweet maybe sour dreams going on in that pig's head that's from Georgia peaches. Good to see you Georgia. Thanks for being here for that. Nice comment. We have another one. Sorry. This is off topic, but written house was on louder with Crowder this morning. What a, what a nice kid. Thanks buddy. I haven't listened to that, but somebody from my office told me of about that. So I'm gonna have to listen to that. Maybe tonight, buttered toe says nice to know how the other side lives, I guess when you're rich and make it to the top. It isn't about making humanity better, but just have it as much, uh, you know, intercourse with you can excuse me while I slave away. Well, it's better than what they're doing. At least you won't burn in hell for all eternity. So sleep well at night. Kiss says good logic is in the chat. You should probably make him Amod so he can see his chats more easily. Oh, is he here still? Where's he at? Where's the good logic of Joe. All right. I'm gonna keep my eye out. If I see him, we'll wrench him up. Is that a thing? Is that, is that uh, good, proper YouTube kit still learning on all this stuff we have. Sergeant Bob is here, says incredibly complex case. Good job, sir. I'm ready to take the LSAT again. Well, I wouldn't wish that LSAT on anybody. I hated that stinking test. It's frustrating as heck when you like to be like a, like a 100% type of a thing, you can't really do that on the LS set. It's frustrating. Thunder seven says I think the state wants to shut down the trial quickly to avoid the publicity with the Clintons and the Maxwell Epstein saga. Even though they keep throwing out Trump's name. He hasn't had any contact with either of them in decades, but the Clintons and gates and Andrew Prince Andrew, they all kept in contact with them. Even after Epstein was char urgently, given a level three risk, the new boss at Twitter, shutting down any accounts which have four photos docs with the Clinton royalty Epstein Maxwell connection. The truth will come out after the trial ends. Well, I sure hope so. Thunder seven. We're gonna continue to do our part to report on it and connect all the dots. And I'm grateful for your input. Jeremy says, Rob, I know I've said this, but I love the work you have done. Making the mind map visual aids are extremely helpful in understanding how things are related. Have you ever considered studying social network analysis? I'm thinking you might dig so deep in connecting the dots that you might be called to testify. I that's funny Jeremy. Uh, oh no. What did I just do? Okay. So, uh, no, have not. I have not taken up, uh, a hobby in social network analysis, but maybe, maybe one day I'll do it. Thank you for the comment, Jeremy. I'm glad you're enjoying the mind maps. I'll tell you this. I actually have a lot of fun making them, once you start a tentacle in the mind map, it's really hard to like, not keep adding to it. It feels like it almost feels like a, uh, like a video game, like an MMO or something where you have to go and collect the resources and build it and add a little branch. It's a lot of fun. Uh, speech unleashed says, I know that good logic is not a reporter, but I honestly have an issue with him interjecting himself into the actual court case by talking, advising directly either the defense or the prosecution, when that happens, it gives the appearance of him trying to become a part of the story or the trial instead of just being an observer or a commentator interesting perspective, their speech interesting perspective, you know, and I, and I think that Joe is, you know, is in an interesting sort of position where we all, we all are actually kind of, you know, like I would, I would say that those old lines are no longer as relevant as they used to be, you know, reporters and journalists and, uh, biased and unbiased and all at stuff. I mean the, the sort of idyllic image that any journalist or any reporter anywhere is gonna be unbiased. I think, I think that ship has sailed a long time ago. I mean, there's still that, that sort of, you know, fake notion that that exists, but I think practically I'm not sure that there's anybody out there who's reporting that is, you know, unbiased really. And so I think what Joe's doing is he's, he's observing, he's reporting, he's participating, you know, speech. I talk about this sort of in, in my book, talking about the idea that a big part of the problem with law is that not enough people are interested in the law. If more people are interested in the law and we don't just treat people like bags of dirt and garbage and just, well, the justice system has them. So we can just forget about'em. We don't have to worry about it anymore. We're just gonna, uh, I guess, move on to the next thing and turn back on the Kardashians because the legal system will just take care of itself, who cares? What's happening to the prisoners who cares about violations of due process, who cares if you have a corrupt and just, uh, disgust prosecution or, or prosecutor's office who cares what the police are doing? None of our business. I think what Joe and what a lot of these other law tubers are doing, and the people who are really, you know, talking about these case commenting on the case. I think that they're bringing attention to these very, very important issues. They're bringing people they're cause they're helping to create interest in something that needs more I've balls on it. And so I understand your perspective, but I think, I think we're sort of just coming out into a new paradigm. I just don't think that we're gonna be sort of coloring within those old lines anymore. You know, guys like Joe, uh, you know, part of the work that I'm doing that arcade is doing, you know, if, if I'm covering a story, you know, and, and somebody find it something useful or helpful as, as, as a result of one of my ideas or something and they use that. It's great. That's great. That's great. Right. It's part of it's part of the legal process and the legal conversation. And so I don't think that good logic or Joe has ever, uh, has ever tried to portray himself as an unbiased reporter or anything like that. You know, he's a YouTuber, he is a lawyer. He is somebody who is reporting on things at the moment, but he's also somebody who is, you know, an advocate he wants to see the justice system function and work well. He wants to see, you know, an improvement in society. And, uh, I think he's doing a great job with that. So I, I love that. Thank you for sharing that speech. Hopefully, hopefully Joe, you know, understands where you're going with that, but uh, love the different perspectives. Sasha ESHA says, Hey, Rob, hope you and the fam are doing well. It seems that Epstein is in trial rather than go in. Not sure how this is gonna play out with the jury. Yeah. Basically every day talking about Epstein one after the other. Isn't it interesting. And uh, they're gonna have to make the decision about her. About all of the jury. Instructions are gonna be about her not Epstein. Sergeant Bob says, miss lucky son flew is a commercial pilot for a very wealthy BC businessman prior to the, the I pilots were not even supposed to talk to the boss or the passengers, their job only to fly. So any knowledge would be somewhat speculative. Passengers might be noted as a safety item. That's it sorta like Juanes don't you even talk to Mr. Epstein don't have any bul, anything bulging outta your pants because this is Epstein's house and only he can bulge here. Juan John resident of make believe says the OG Rogers would pop a can WPE on that imposter. Yeah. Mr. Rogers would not stand for any of this stuff. Mr. Rogers would say, I feel some evil nefarious activities happening around here. Let's put on our shoes. Mama goop says, you know what I find weird about all the redaction and the assumed victims' names that most of this was fully discussed in the Netflix documentary about Epstein. I believe that Caroline and Jane's stories were covered in full with their real faces and names. I wonder if the jurors were asked if they watched it<laugh> from mama go. It's a good question. It's a good comment. Mama go kind of feels like it's a lot of, uh, uh, I can't think of the word. I was gonna think of a word, but I'm not gonna say that word leafy bug says, I just thought I'd stop by to spread the word that Natalie whi the millibits lawyer is on, uh, on the written house. Defense was on legal bites channel. Very interesting insider account of the trial, including the reasons why they made the decisions. They did, why they spent so little time on jury selections, why they didn't object more? Why Kyle testified, why they sought a mistrial in short, they had constant eyes on the jury. They could see what was landing or wasn't. They saw how the jury was reacting. They knew the judge, they were Kenosha specific factors in play. One could say she was having for her boss, but her rationale seemed pretty plausible. I found them and her convincing I'm mentioning this because I recall you being a lot less critical of Richards and co than others, and that the defense's strategy would've been based on the work for a Kenosha jury after listening to Wisco, I think your analysis has been vindicated. I completely recommend people catch this interview if they haven't already, as it gives the most detailed, incredible insight into what was going on during the trial. That's currently out there. Thank you for that ping leafy bug. Yeah. And that was the feel, you know, it sort of, they were, they were sort of, uh, calling audibles as they were walking up to the line of scrimmage in real time. And what that felt like to a lot of people with sloppiness and sort of like haphazard and, but they were, they were watching and observing and making adjustments. And I know lawyers like that. There was appropriate times to be, you know, to be practicing that way. And it worked out for'em. So how can you be critical? They got a complete victory across the board. Congratulations, Natalie we've got, or seven says enjoying your daily trial updates. Rob, quick question. Full passenger name must be noted in the flight log in the case of a crash. How can they get away with writing female? So nobody will ever know they go missing. Well, I think when you're a billionaire and you have your private plane and nobody cares what you do, that's the least of your worries. Thunder seven. You're adorable there to trafficking 14 year old girls around the country and world, but they didn't update their flight log.<laugh> I'm not making fun of you. Thunder seven. It's a great point. It's just hilarious. The really dark stuff went on in the temple at the island. Hint, there was an owl sculpture, a top the temple, like in Bohemian Grove, Lex Wener Jeff's step down as the CEO at the beginning of trial. It's funny. Yeah. No, it's they, they just don't. They do whatever they want. I mean, that's the, that's the answer. I'm not trying to be, you know, overly jokey about it, but that's the answer. Yeah. They don't care about the flight log. What did they care? Outnumbered mom says you just outed me to the husband for being on the map. He wasn't expecting to hear his name on the stream. Love the map. Outnumbered mom.<laugh> sorry about that. Forewarning. If you're gonna be browsing the map while I'm recording the show, your name might pop up there and you might be on YouTube. So hopefully you're okay with that.<laugh> shout out to outnumbered mom, DEI McBride is here, says, Hey Rob, how did S D N Y get around the circa 2007 or 2008 non prosecution agreement? Was that addressed by the pretrial motion? It was in fact, yeah, either way. Wouldn't be something to throw up against the wall. If Maxwell is convicted and has to appeal. You're exactly right. Digi McBride. And in fact, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that this is probably gonna be the way that this things goes. If I have to make a, a prediction, you know, I think she's probably convicted and then acquitted or I'm sorry. Uh, reversed on appeal. That's my, that's my long shot long put, see if that one goes in convicted and then acquitted or, or reversed on appeal. Why, why do I say that? Well, it's because of that non prosecution agreement that DG McBride is talking in about, it's a very stoop point. And guess what? We have that in the mind map, let's take a look at it. So you'll notice that when we zoom out on this puppy, I actually have this notated in the issues. So here we have this motion to dismiss concept. Okay? The, the, the, I, I actually don't think I attached the motion to dismiss, but this was brought up in pre-trial proceedings. The judge denied this Galin Maxwell's lawyers. They filed a motion to dismiss, and they said that she should be included in this non prosecution agreement. You can see this took place back in 2007, there were four named co-conspirators in here, but DG McBride, if you look at this non prosecution agreement and you zoom in on this thing, you'll, you'll notice it says this as well. It says United States also agrees that it will not Institute any criminal charges against any potential co-conspirators of Epstein, including, but not limited it to Sarah Kell, Adriana, Ross, Leslie GRA, and Nadia Marcine. Cova okay. Those were the names of everybody who was included. They cannot be prosecuted. These are people who are potential co-conspirators specifically named, but this document, it doesn't just limit it to them. And I've never seen anything like this, right? It's the us go. Government is not gonna Institute any criminal charges against any potential co-conspirators of Epstein. How does that not include Maxwell, including, but not limited to which means that this hula hoop, this circle it's way bigger than Ross GRA Marcine Cova Orkel the U us government in their lunacy. I don't know why. I don't know how this came about, where they give Epstein a blank slate, a non prosecution agreement. That is a blank check. It's you, it's your four compadres and it's any other potential people who are at criminals with you, total immunity. Something happens with Epstein. Apparently he kills himself or something, but this non prosecution agreement doesn't apply to Maxwell. Give me a break. Judge said that it didn't, but we'll see what the court of appeal says if she is convicted. So that's a great question. It's a great answer. I think it's gonna be a juicy one that comes back up on appeal, and we'll see how that lays out. Former Eleo says, I wonder if there are any photos of Epstein vacationing with his victims like he did with Maxwell. It's a great question there. Former EEO, this guy's a pervert and he's sleeping around with all these people. Is he dragging him around to beaches and stuff, or is he only keeping them? And these activities limited to the massage rooms Madrea is here, says, all right, in aviation, when it comes to recording keeping requirements for multi engine aircraft, each certificate holder is responsible for accuracy. Number of passengers, total weight identification of crew members, origin, and destination. This is likely the reason there isn't a complete record of the names on Epstein's aircraft. Although we can speculate someone may have recorded names if they had the time or the desire to do so. Very interesting. Thank you for that citation. Zeroes is here. How do you hate the LSAT when you've written the bar exam twice? Not to mention all the law school exams in between, have you gotten a hold of written house to warn'em about law school?<laugh> have not yet. No. No. Haven't, haven't had a connection with, uh, Kyle out there, but, uh, the LSAT you have to take once bar exam, I've taken twice. I probably rather take the bar exam than the LSAT, cuz it's at least interesting. Although the LSAT is interesting too. It's like a, it's like a complex puzzle, but it's, it's frustrating if you're, uh, you know, not an, not an Oxford person, I'm not an Oxford person. So maybe if I was as, as smart as Jake Sullivan who went to Oxford, maybe I'd like them better. Kincaid says, if you worked at CNN, that tab would have been sassy. Indeed. If I did. Yeah, it would've been all right. My friends and that was it. Those were all the questions over from watching the watchers.locals.com. And I think, yeah, I think that, yeah, I think that's what we've got for today. And so before we get outta here, I want to thank all of you who submitted those great questions. All of our friends@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. Before we leave reminder that we've got a monthly meetup taking place this Saturday folks three days from now, December 11th, seven o'clock Eastern time, which means that's gonna be five o'clock Arizona time. So it's gonna be 4:00 PM. Pacific 5:00 PM, mountain 6:00 PM. Central 7:00 PM east coast. This Saturday, we're gonna hang out for an hour, maybe two hours. It's gonna be the ugly sweater edition. And we just talk. It's a lot of fun. We just talked. Raise your hand in zoom cameras on cameras off. You can use a pseudonym. If your camera's off, you might be an FBI agent. If you use a pseudonym, you might be a well victim. I don't know. I won't make a mind map about it to try to figure it out, come and join us. We'll have a lot of fun. We'll have a good conversation. We've got a lot of people doing cool stuff out there in our community. And that's what it's about. It's about community as this society feels like it keeps drifting far and further and further apart. We're trying to bring it back together. So join us this saturday@watchingthewatchersdotlocalsto.com and I wanna welcome some amazing new supporters over there. Big, final shoutouts to equestrian girl. Welcome equestrian girl. We've got Richie DC in the house. We've got red Jersey. We've got Nikki dragon. We've got things in stuff. Joined up. Donna 1 0 7, the vez one we've got Jimmy w we have big tether bites. We've got Kimmy cat oh three, Kevin AZs here. Antar 24 queen of Tennessee. Welcome aboard. Reley Lee music box lady. Big re is here. Tester 16 T we've got Lama. Brad, Kenny H CFC starfish, 55 Aldo, the Apache C C GS SCR job, rugger bugger all on page one on page two. We're done yet. We've got Jay Markie, Cantonese Brody son squirrel. Oh, oh five oh pal Fanta MC Gloria Black cat Meow. Nick McCloud. Dr. Ren T Blakemore. Patriot minute. We got Ben Tomlinson's Laurel seven 20 UN sheath, Tucker grip, Tommy nukes, red beard and Monique Nicole. And that my friends is it for us for the day. I wanna thank you for being up part of the show. We're gonna do it all again here tomorrow. And I need you here so that together with your help, we can shine that big, beautiful spotlight of accountability and transparency and justice down upon our system. I'll see you here tomorrow at 4:00 PM, Arizona time, 5:00 PM, roll 6:00 PM on the east coast. Be well, my friends. See ya then. Bye. Bye.