Watching the Watchers with Robert Gruler Esq.

Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Day 6: “Kate” Testifies on Epstein Abuse, FBI Special Agent​

December 06, 2021 Robert Gruler Esq.
Watching the Watchers with Robert Gruler Esq.
Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Day 6: “Kate” Testifies on Epstein Abuse, FBI Special Agent​
Show Notes Transcript

Day SIX of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial continues. The government is still presenting its case-in-chief. We review the day’s trial activity and other Epstein/Maxwell news, including:​

🔹 Prosecutors walk to court together for the first time since the start of trial.​
🔹 Journalist @OneAddyAdds is on the ground shooting man-on-the-street footage.​
🔹 Maxwell’s siblings and defense lawyers Menninger and Pagliuca arrive separately.​
🔹 Judge Nathan addresses several pre-trial matters involving photographs and other exhibits.​
🔹 Detective Dawson completed the search, and trial lawyers enter a stipulation as to his testimony.​
🔹 PICTURES: Exhibits 230, 271, 278, 238, 240… all detailing the inside of Epstein’s Palm Beach Estate.​
🔹 Government prosecutors call “Kate” a pseudo-anonymous Victim of Epstein to testify about her treatment.​
🔹 We are joined once again by Joe Nierman @GoodLawgic for his take from inside the proceedings.​
🔹 Bobbi Sternheim cross-examines “Kate” and @innercitypress explains the feel in the courtroom.​
🔹 Government prosecutors call Patrick McHugh, a JP Morgan Chase Bank executive.​
🔹 McHugh explains certain financial transactions, including one that saw Ghislaine receive $5 million.​
🔹 Next, Prosecutors call FBI Special Agent Kelly McGuire, who was a part of the 2019 Epstein Raid.​
🔹 McGuire details findings from the raid, including pictures of the massage room (redacted).​
🔹 Prosecutors call one final witness, another FBI agent.​
🔹 Your comments and questions!​

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#WatchingtheWatchers #GhislaineMaxwell #MaxwellTrial #Epstein #EpsteinDidntKillHimself #JeffreyEpstein #GhislaineMaxwellTrial

Speaker 1:

Hello, my friends. And welcome back to yet. Another episode of watching the Watchers live. My name is Robert grr . I am a criminal defense attorney here at the R and R law group in the always beautiful and sunny Scottsdale Arizona. And today we're talking about Glenn Maxwell trial day six. We've got a lot to get into. We've got prosecutors now, our kind of chain changing the way they're going to court. They're walking together in groups. And so we're gonna check in about all the attendees at the trial. It's the usual suspects we've got. Maureen Comey . We've got Pran was testifying today, or was leading the direct exam during testimony today. We've got Maxwell's siblings. Who are they? Uh, we've got Isabella, we've got max. We've got Menger . We've got Pagliuca all the regular crews back in court for trial day six. We're gonna go through several different witnesses, but we've gotta get through a little bit of the heavy lifting. First. There was some exhibits that were in question REM last week, we talked about detective Dawson. We went through a lot of different pictures and things. We're gonna revisit a lot of those images because those exhibit are now out a part of the public record. And so we're gonna be able to go through those, but there was a lot of battling over those photos. If you remember this last week, a lot of conversation about, well , that picture that we see in that photo, those were a little bit, you know, not good for jurors to see. And so the defense wanted to keep some of those things out. Government wanted to keep those things in. And so we've got actually some of the photos that were released to the jurors in trial. We're gonna go through all of those today. We're gonna check in again, of course, with good logic, Joe Neman, he's boots on the ground over there, we've got government prosecutors, they call somebody else called Patrick McCue . He's a chase bank executive. This guy was funneling money or , or not funneling, let's say handling trade transactions for Epstein and Glenn in funnel in , uh , moving money around for them. Maxwell got something like 5 million out of the whole deal. And so , uh, we'll go through that. And then at the very end of the day, we had two different FBI agents. Somebody called Kelly McGuire . That was a part of a 2019 Epstein raid. So again, talking a ton about Epstein. And if you recall, of course, he was being prosecuted for criminal charges in 2019 , his New York apartment was rated. And so the same thing that we did with Mr. Parkinson, the CSI, the crime scene and investigator for the Palm beach residence , we're gonna do the same thing with the New York residence . We're gonna have the police go in the raid, the place they bring out a bunch of evidence, and we're gonna be able to unpack all of that with these FBI agent witnesses. And so we've got a lot to get into. We're also gonna take a look at the mind map , and I've got a story to share with you about this mind map thing. I stepped in it. Folks, I made a fool myself, and I'm looking forward to telling you about that. But if you wanna be a part of the show, the place to do that is [email protected] and here is the form. And you can ask a question, get that submitted. We'll be sure that we get to that. We're also taking super chats. Of course, we're on YouTube. So super chats. They look like that when they pop up on the screen and you've got some dad said , uh , this last week. And so you can see exactly what that looks like. So if you wanna support the show either way, certainly appreciate that other reminder, that we've got clips that go out. So clips go out of the individual witnesses since we're sort of in trial season, we're covering trials and we're gonna be clipping these segments up. So if you wanna look at what, you know what Kate said, for example, or what Jane said, for example, you can just go to our clips channel. These are also a lot more shareable, so you can share those with your friends and your family. But first let's talk about this mind map business. So I've got some interesting news, some cool developments that I've sort of uncovered over the weekend with this mind map stuff, because a lot of people , uh , reached out and said, Hey, I want , you know , can I , can I access that? Can I see some of that? And so I've got some updates on that while I was going through this process, I absolutely embarrassed myself badly and it, it , uh , involves YouTube and it involves , uh , me eating Crow. So we're gonna do it right now. Let's get into the , the story here. First, let's take a look at the update from the mind map. So as we have talked about previously, this is what it looks like. There's a lot going on here. The name of this software is called mind Meister and it's it's, you know, it's , it's , I think it's free. You can pay to upgrade it and all this stuff. And what I wanted to do with this, my sort of vision for this software was that it is collaborative so that people can work together it and see it. You know, it's cool if I show it on the , on the show, but it's also cooler. If you, as somebody who's watching the show can poke in here and play around with the mind map, if you can navigate through it and sort of , uh , click on a link. And this is Annie farmer , we click a link, it opens up the link. We can click on the notes for Jane and read some of the notes that I wrote in there for Jane, right? So you allowing you to sort of, you know , poke through this, if you'd like to do that. And so I wanted to figure out how to share this. And so this is new software , uh , for me, I played around with it a long time ago, but they've updated a lot of it. And so I , I wanted to be able to share it as you can see, I figured it out Eureka. So I can in fact share this with people and you can see there are people popping in and out of this , uh, right up here right now, you've got guest 25 is here. We've got guest 26 is here. And so this is available on our locals community. So if you want the link to this, you join [email protected] and then you're gonna get this link and you can poke around. Right. So sounds great. Sounds cool. And I put a lot of work into this puppy, and we're gonna talk about, you know, a lot to this today, but I put a lot of work into this. And so, as I was thinking about this, it , it , I was thinking, okay, so if I'm gonna be sharing this, I wanna make sure that I'm sort of protecting this. You know, I wanna make sure that somebody can't just, you know, add a node, you know, just kind of go in here and, you know, just add a node to this thing and then just say, Hey, oh, that's not, Rob's mind map anymore. Now that's , uh , you know , Mr. Uh , twin torpedoes mind map or something like that, you know, sort of, you know, protecting your IP or something. And so I was playing around with these sharing settings, like these invite settings and, you know, the share link and all these different things. And I was asking a friend of mine. So I sent him a , a message on Twitter as I'm I'm , as I'm experimenting with the software. I say , I click this button. I created these shares , uh , these sharing links and all this stuff. And so I wanna test this to you. Hey, I'm gonna send you this link. If I send this to you, I wanna make sure that you just can't copy this. Right. I wanna make sure that you just can't take this line map and copy it right into your own account and sort of, you know, kind of steal it. In other words, that you can't just make this your own. Cause I put a lot of work into this puppy and if this is gonna be spreading all over the internet, then I wanna make sure that people, you know, get funneled back to our community, that it's a value add for our community, all that stuff. So I say, Hey, can you just check this? If I, I , I send 'em a message on Twitter. Hey, if you're there, can you check this for me and make sure that, you know, you can't just sort of copy the whole thing or, you know, export the whole thing and just kind of steal the whole thing. But if you know, but certainly I wanna make it available for people to use and be a part of. And so you might say that that sounds perfectly reasonable, right? Not even a big deal, which is true. If I would've sent that message, my friend, but guess what happened? I didn't send that message to my friend. Guess who I sent that message to saying, I wanna make sure that people don't copy my stuff. Who I , who did I send that to? I wanna make sure that people don't copy my stuff. Well, I happen to send it to a group message with 16 other YouTube lawyers in it. Oh . Telling them I hope essentially. I hope nobody copies my stuff to the entire group chat. All of them , all the other lawyers on YouTube, 16, 18 of 'em . I , I mean, maybe all of them. I'm not sure if I got all of them in there. So I, I, I , I did . I realized it like an hour later, I'm like, oh , this is weird. <laugh> and nobody responded. They all just let it sit there. Like a big fat meatball. Just hit sit there. So after the gym this morning , uh , Bronco was on there. Look, everybody got folks, everybody all , if you watch any legal news on YouTube, everybody, the whole, the whole stinking community, all of them Barnes. Good logics on there. Yeah. I'm looking at the chat. We've got Viva RADA . We've got the whole, whole community, the whole community's out there and nobody said anything. So then I realize it. I'm like, oh my God, what have I done? What have I done? And so I, I Nate, the lawyers in there. Yeah. All of them . Yeah. Legal bites . Uh Broca's on there. Uh, you name it the whole , the whole, the whole community's there. So I send that message to all of them. And then I go into like, you know, psycho panic mode. I'm like, oh God, what have I done? My stomach dropped . Like, literally I was sick to my stomach about it. And, and it drops. And I'm like, Ugh . So I sent , 'em a message, guys. I wasn't talking about you. I was like , and , and to be , to be perfectly fair about this, I, 100% was not talking about them. You know, if they want any of this stuff, it's free. I'm sharing it with everybody anyways. But, but it was sort of like a , like a principle of the thing, you know, that I just wanted to make sure that this wouldn't , uh, you know , legal, legal is not a party of it . He's not a real lawyer as far as I can tell. I think he's just a YouTuber, but he's not a part of this group. So, so, you know, look, I , I , I , I , I genuinely was not meaning it to , to anybody in that group. And I mean, that sincerely from the bottom of my heart, first of all, first of all, everybody in that group is like a level 10 creativity beyond me. Okay . I'm not that creative, everybody else in that community is a lot more creative. Look at their backgrounds and look what they do with their, with , with what , what they're doing. I'm like the most generic, boring robotic guy in the planet. So I wasn't trying to, no , nobody would take it or steal it anyways. Okay. Which is what makes it so insulting. Like that's, what's so insulting about this is I send it to them. Like , I'm not gonna steal your crap loser. Nobody wants, nobody wants your crap. Nobody wants your mind maps, dork. So, you know, they're just going to, you know, but it's very insulting. A lot of very, you know, accomplished people in there. <laugh> oh man. So from the bottom of my heart, I mean, I mean, it , I , I tell them all the time, I tell everybody on law to that, you know, they, they inspire me. I mean that a lot, you know, doing this, this type of work is not that easy. Candidly. I know a lot of them make it look like it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of work. And, you know, there are times when, when I sort of feel like I'm sort of, you know , coming down on myself or running out of energy or running outta steam or whatever. And I look around to everybody in that group, in that community. And you know, they're always just going, man, they're always going. And so they're inspirational. I just want to formally Apollo officially to everybody in that group. I mean, every single person, a part of law , I was not intending to be , uh, insulting to you. I don't think that anybody would, would want any of my stuff. Anyways. You're welcome to it. It's it's open to everybody, but I just wanna apologize. I love you all. Keep inspiring me. Keep doing the great work. Please accept my apologies now to be, to be fair, we're gonna get to the trial. Jackie, take it . Take a quick second. I <laugh> take a second. They're probably, they're probably formulating an indictment against me right now. So we're going to , uh , we're going to, to clear the air on that formal apologies to all of my friends over there on law, but I , I deserve to be beat up about it. All right . All so now let's get into the trial for the day. Shall we? All right . Go in Maxwell trial day six, we've got a lot to get to. Let's see who attended the court proceedings. We've got Addie ads over on YouTube. One Addie ads says for the first time this trial he's on the streets. He's on the he's on the ground. He's watching this from outside the courtroom. He says for the first time this trial , the prosecution arrives in MOS for the media, including Maureen Comey. She's the daughter of former director James Comey . So every time that Maureen's Comey names come comes up now , uh, we're going to be seeing that, that statement. In other words, Maureen Comey is never gonna be able to live without being called the daughter of James Comey . So you're gonna see that they are actually walking together and this prosecutor or this assistant is carrying something in a weird red box, covered up with a bunch of stuff. Here's what it looked like this morning. Uh, I don't think there's any audio on this. Yeah, no audio that I was able to grab from this. So you see Maureen , uh , Comey sort of walking into the courtroom. She's all masked up. Let me get that watermark in there. Uh , Addie adds on Twitter, make sure you go follow him. He's down there. He's been there for a , uh , for a long time and he's doing good work. So he's sort of covering the prosecutors, making their way into court. I think here he's got the defense attorneys who are also coming in. Got some sound on this one. Yeah. So you can see, it looks like Laura Menger and Jeff are right there.

Speaker 2:

How do you think the going , why do you think the case is going so well ? <inaudible>

Speaker 1:

All right . So, you know, kind of in their face and then we've got , uh , this is max and then we've got Isabel all their way into court. So it's been sort of a long weekend. There was actually a lot of activity this weekend talking about , uh , some motions and some , and some things that , you know , have had to be filed back and forth, but we've got, this is max making his way to court. We've got Isabella making her way to court. And if you remember, we have to do a quick backtrack on the testimony that wrapped up on Friday. Remember on Friday, the name of that show was the twin torpedo. So yeah, that's cuz we were talking about Michael Dawson and that's when we saw a picture. When his testimony came out on Friday saying that they introduced a photograph of Epstein's toys and the brand name is called the twin torpedoes. Remember this guy, Michael Dawson. Yeah. We spent a lot of time talking about this, this box, you know, and this and this and this, this concept tier Michael Dawson was the last guy who came out to testify. And this was part of the detective. If you recall, it went crime scene investigator Gregory Parkinson, then it went to Michael Dawson and Michael Dawson was the detective who was really kind of explaining all the photographs that were taking and the video as he was going through the Palm beach property that Epstein had. And he revealed this to in torpedo stuff. So we're having a conversation about those photographs. He's walking around, there's video , he's video videoing and picturing the entire residence. So we're gonna have to have conversations about that specifically about those photographs. What about the pictures of the torpedo , uh , and that pickle and, and those tapes over there. What are we gonna do with that, that art , uh , painting of, you know, bodies sort of embracing one another that's on the , uh , uh , wall into the Epstein's bedroom. What are we gonna do about all that? So inner city press, of course, on Twitter, he's there viewing this stuff. He gives us one of the best play by plays . That's out there almost like transcript level qualities. So go give him a follow on Twitter at inner city press. And he says, all right now, before the jury comes in, we're warming up this morning, day six in Maxwell trial, Nathan is reading rulings on exhibits, which is exactly what we were talking about from Dawson's testimony. Talking specifically about the pictures on the wall. Judge Nathan comes out and says, all right , you know those pictures on the wall of Epstein's massage room. I think that they're a little bit too much. They risk prejudice. They're gonna distract the jury. So they are going to be redacted. Okay. So some of the images are gonna be blanked out. Some of the photographs, the other photos, things of the, the , uh , buzzing machines, the cylindrical buzzers, the court's gonna exclude those. Okay . So the jurors are not gonna see those photos of the torpedoes or, or maybe the torpedoes, or it says of the vibrators. The court's gonna exclude those. So, you know, might be something else. But that's what we're getting from inner city press. Nathan says, I will also exclude the photos of the quote creepy animals. Okay . So those photos also now not coming in tigers, for example, those are idiosyncratic, the school uniforms, however, may be admissible. So remember, as Dawson was going around through Epstein's property, there was some indication that there were school uniforms there that belonged to school girls , or let's say school, girl uniforms don't know who exactly they belonged to, but they were there. And so the defense is saying, you can't even talk a about those not relevant at all. Government of course wants that in because it shows that there's a propensity to, you know, I , I guess, indulge in things that involve , uh , young girls. So they are now trying to get that stuff in the judge tells us uhoh what did I do? The judge tells us that it it's gonna depend on the testimony. So when somebody comes in and testifies, gonna depend on what they say about whether or not those CR uh , those , uh , uniforms, evidence of those uniforms can come in, otherwise the public's gonna get redacted documents. You can see here that we're also talking about the stipulation for Mr. Dawson, Michael Dawson. He testified last week on Friday, and then he was excused. And so this was that same guy who was talking, you know, walk , uh , uh , I saw this in the closet. I saw that in the bedroom, I saw that in the master and a lot of that testimony was redacted. I mean, we , or under seal , we didn't see much of that. If you recall, on Friday, there was like a whole blank , uh , black hole time zone , where nobody was tweeting, nobody saw anything. It was just kind of dead air because they shut off the observation room from within the courtroom, they were showing, you know, sealed and redacted stuff and they just needed to , um , stop a anybody from seeing it. So we have no idea what they were talking about. So now we get then Michael Dawson. So there's a question about his testimony about this box, where we found it. And so they come to a conclusion and they enter a stipulation. This is basically an agreement they're saying, listen, we're gonna , uh , let Michael Dawson go. We know what Michael Dawson was, was going to testify about. We're not gonna need him to come back and actually testify about it. We're just going to have to , uh, you know, communicate what he was going to say to the court. In other words, we're gonna save Michael a trip back the defense and the prosecution. We've talked about what we think he's gonna say. And we've come to an agreement about what he was going to say. And we're just gonna tell the jury that we're not gonna make him come and say it. We're just gonna tell the jury what we agree that he would've said. Makes sense. All right . So then judge Nathan says, all right , fine. Bring the jurors in. And then please be seated. You may recall the last witness from Friday, the parties have a stipulation. They've agreed to something. I just showed you that document. Mr. Ever, they go over to the , uh , Glenn Maxwell's defense lawyer and they say, tell 'em what you agreed to there. Adel says, all right , he stands up and he reads it. He says it is hereby agreed to by us attorney Dian , William and Maureen Comey , daughter of James Comey and counsel and Maxwell that the witness would have said that the cardboard box was found in the closet of a guest bedroom. Him had items unopened, huh? And that's defendant exhibit B. So now we have a, it's sort of like one of those board games, you know, in the closet with a knife, with a Butler, here it is. Here's what Damien said. We have a cardboard box found in the closet of a guest bedroom room and it had items unopened. All right . That's a , that's a new exhibit. So what's in that box. And what are we talking about? I don't anybody's guess twin torpedoes , uh , school uniform, you know , I dunno , that's all we've got, but we do get a peer inside that Palm beach residence. So as I mentioned, as we're following this trial, we're gonna be covering the , the actual proceedings. And then after that day's proceedings, they're gonna be releasing the exhibits. Everything else is gonna trickle out and we're just gonna have to address it and we're gonna get to see it. And we're gonna get to add it to our mind map. And we're gonna get to sort of expand our knowledge on the case in real time , which is why this is a hard case to follow linearly. It makes a lot more sense if we can sort of update it in real time and watch the, the different branches grow. So what we see now are some of those exhibits that have finally been released government exhibit two 30, this is inside Epstein's residence. This was the Palm beach residence back in the 1990s. And you can see, it looks very 1990s and it , you know, not particularly something that, you know , know would , would , would suit my style or my taste, but , uh , maybe in the nineties, I would've dug it. I don't know. So you can see that here, he's got a lot of books, he's got a working desk and, you know, a , a lot of these photographs and things we can, we can sort of see, you know , a lot of this stuff has not been redacted. It's very, very, you know, generic stuff, random books, we've got , uh , some magazine and stuff on the floor. Maybe they're looking at, you know , uh , coffee tables or mugs or whatever they're doing down there. And so you can just see kind of, kind of vanilla, not , not too much going on here, we continue forward and we can start to, you know, meander around the house and as you're playing, you know, eye spy or whatever, you're gonna see some kind of interesting things. Stand out a little bit. You're gonna notice that we've got kind of, if you , if you look real close over here on this, right, right. Above government exhibit 2 27, you're gonna notice, there's like almost a picture of like this weird pink animal down here kind of looks like a cartoon animal. It's got a , a frame that has sort of some beads on it kind of looks like a , like a , like something you'd put in the child's room. Right. And that's , um, you know, kind of a weird thing for, for a guy like Epstein, you know, a multi-billionaire to have in his , uh , in his room. So a little bit strange. And you can see also in very, very nineties, we have kind of this old LCD monitor or whatever, you know, whatever technology that is. Uh , but the big green, some of the beach towels around, we carry on. Now we go back to government exhibit 2 71. And so we don't know what this is, you know, is this a , a guest bedroom or a master bedroom? You know, I, haven't done sort of a , a , a deep dive analysis on any of this. I'm not sure that the data exists, but you can see, again, very 1990s, we've got the phone next to the bed. Didn't have many cell phones or anything like that. Back then, you know, you, weren't on Facebook. Then you've got this big TV with that standard surround sound system. You know, the 5.1 surround you got that tall silo fan, but not too much stands out except maybe, maybe these pillows, you know, these pillows sort of, kind of have a , if you look close , kind of looks like a , maybe a childish brand to it. You know, I don't know. So another image, and again, they're just kind of MOSY through the residents. And so you don't know what these books say. You don't know what's in the closet, you know, where they find the box, this, that, and the other, then we start getting into kind of looks like a bathroom area, right? This doesn't look necessarily like a massage room, although, you know, you I'm certainly you could set up a massage table right there, that same massage table that we saw or heard about last week. You could set that up right there. And , uh, you know, you could, you , you could Epstein, I guess, yourself out, but kind of weird. You also have this weird little pink, pink , uh, couch over here with these weird pink cushions. And if you look on the wall here, now you have some of this artwork that we're talking about. Now, of course, this is a family show, PG rated. And so we've got a, you know, a number of photographs on there that look like bodies, but, you know , everything is, is , uh , you know, censored. And it looks like it's artwork , uh, like , uh, drawings and , uh, a pastel or , or , uh , I'm sorry, sculptures, or, or , you know, sketches or whatever. And so, you know, no , no actual nudity or, or , you know, hardcore positions or anything, but you can still certainly see that it's a little bit risky. You know, it's not something you'd put in your dining room on this wall. And so none of this stuff , uh , apparently was redacted all this, you know, it's, it's , it's fair enough for the jurors to see of neutral kind of plain stuff, nothing too weird, nothing too abnormal over here on the medicine cabinet, you know, your standard razors and other toiletries, nothing to really write home about you got your towels. There you go. So we also then move over into this room. Now this is sort of an office, and this is government exhibit 2 38. Not too much stands out here either, but you can see sort of the length to what they went through. They went through everything, they probably looked in those drawers. They took photographs of, you know, everything it's all the 1999, you know , 1990s towers and printers and monitors and keyboards and this, that, and the other. Uh , so again, not too much interesting there we take a close up , we see some, a message, a message book. We see some blueprints in this area. We've got, you know, a big cylinder, some, maybe a , a modem, a cable modem over in this area, toaster oven keyboards, kinda just like a junk, you know, a standard junk corner. We have another photograph of his desk. And so you can see he's got a , a , the sous , because you couldn't just go to the to look that up. Uh , he's got a scanner over there. Think I might have owned that version. At one point, we've got a number of different, you know , uh , writing tools in a computer. And again, not too much there , uh , up here, you can see we've got some , probably some other police officers in the scene who are participating in the rest of the raid. And then we get to this photo. You know, this photo's an interesting one because this sort of starts to look like something that might be closer to a massage room, kind of right. It's a bathroom. It looks like we've got some closets on the right side. We've got a lot of equipment down here. Uh , at far end of this restroom, there's a tub down there. We've got, looks like a vanity to the right. We've got several different , uh , look, I , I don't know what any of this high tech gear is. I don't know what , what that is, you know, lasering this, that or the other, I don't know , but it's looks like it's right in front of a massage bed. So we've got another interesting photo here. That's just a different angle of that same room. I think that we were in. So, you know , multiple angles of this room, which leads me to believe that maybe they found something in this room that they want to dial in on. You know, again, a lot of this testimony came in a way that is very first of all, hardly even public and not, not available for us to decipher, or it's hard to connect different exhibits to different testimony because we don't get to hear much of the testimony. So we have another photograph down here in the hall, and then we've got sort of another, you know , another weird photograph of a, sort of an embrace. It looks like hands around, somebody's back kind of embracing their spinal cord a little bit. And, you know, that's , um , curious, we have another sculpt sure . On the wall, can't see what that is. It's being blocked off by the lamp, but a very, you know, yellow and interesting room. And then this is the final photograph. The final exhibit that we saw come out and again, not too much, you know, a really right home about here. So all this is is pretty, you know , pretty well sanitized. Uh, we're not seeing, not too much of a , really anything that stands out unusual other than, you know, kind of ugly 1990 , 1990s styles, but we got beach towels, we got a lot more books and that's it. And that's did Palm beach mansion that we get to see now the jurors and everybody else gets to see everything else, including , uh , you know , a lot more of the juicy stuff, but that's what we've got. And we're gonna do all of that again, because at the end of today, we hear from a new FBI agent who is a person who is a part of the raid in 2019, that did the same thing in his 2019 New York apartment. So we're gonna very likely see the , you know , a similar set of exhibits be released from the court at some moment in time. So now that we're up to speed, now that we know that these exhibits came out, we've got some clarity on what exhibits, you know , Dawson could have , uh, communicated to the jurors. We now get to our first witness. We talk about Kate. Kate is not a victim as we're gonna see, she's just a witness. Who's also , uh , using a pseudonym. She's also testifying pseudo anonymously because she wants to protect her identity. Even though she's not a named victim. And the judge has granted that ability for her. So let's go to Adam class field who Claire , what is happening with Kate class field says, the judge says the next anticipated witness is Kate. Now she was over the age of consent. She was not a minor. Okay . This case is about minors. She was not a minor at the time. And they're arguing now about what she can talk about. Okay . So she's not a named victim in this case. Nathan says, I'm gonna tell the jury quote , I instruct you that the witness is not a victim of the crimes charged in the indictment. So though Kate was one of the four accusers I'm referring to her as a witness here. Oh, okay. So maybe she was one of the four accusers. So , so it's hard to keep track of all this because she's sort of testifying in two different capacities. Judge, Nathan then tells the jury. Kate is not a victim of the crimes charged in the indictment. Oh, okay. So I guess she's not in fact, one of the four accusers and the government has been instructed not to testify about the, of any contact with Epstein of a certain variety. Okay. Kate is not a victim of the crimes charged in this indictment against gal Maxwell. So then what is she here for ? We're gonna find out, let's take a look at the court scene. This is what it looked like inside courtroom witness Kate is being questioned by prosecutor Laura PANCE during the trial of Maxwell. As we know, there is an order from judge Allison , Nathan, who we can see here that is instructing all the sketch artists do not draw the faces, but we get , uh , we get some pretty good detail on Lynn's got the old squinty eye going on. Look at that. Oh yeah. The old shifty eye. Huh ? What's going on over here. Over my right shoulder. Very suspicious. Maybe she just doesn't wanna be sketched. She's skeptical about it. Certainly looks like it. So they're having some more arguments about Kate. Kate is a complicated witness and the government wants to be able to talk about certain stuff. And so I'm not gonna spend too much to time on this because there's a lot going on in these motions. But I just wanted to show you what happened over the weekend. So of course, today it is trial day six. It is also December 6th , but late last night, both sides were exchanging a flurry of motions. We had the defense and the government prosecutors fighting over this witness in particular, Kate. So you can see that on 12, five Sunday, us prosecutors, they sent a letter over to the court about witness three in their instructions. Paka then fired a letter right back that's Maxwell's attorney fired a letter, right back December 5th, response to the government's letter. Oh , okay. Now talking about another series of, of exhibits. And then you see late last night before this morning. So they're file . They're filing all this stuff late last night, because this exhibit's gonna come . This witness is gonna come in today and testify. We have an order. The courts in receipt of the government's letter, they wanna limit instruction for witnesses, three anticipated testimony. So that same testimony that we were arguing about that the court ruled on. This is what they were fighting about. So they sent a letter, the government was ordered by the judge to file another letter. Then the defense was ordered to submit another letter. So yesterday the government, their deadline was 4:00 PM. The defense, their deadline. They had three hours to respond. 7:00 PM. Also, they have to keep in mind rules of , of ceiling documents. So, I mean, even late last night, Sunday night before the witness comes out, government says it , uh , witness threes coming . It's gonna be Kate fire. This off. We wanna limit some of the testimony court says, I'll consider it, send you the , this by four defense respond by seven. Judge makes a ruling by nine o'clock this morning, very precise, very, very fast paced and very pristine, like no complications. We've already got a ruling on it. Think about how this is a little bit different than some of the trials we've watched in other courtrooms. In particular, for example, the written house trial, where we've fought over issues for weeks. This was one issue raised multiple different laser focused motions, decision witnesses called testimony continues. That's the difference between the sort of the , the , the , the caliber of cases and representation and, and , and , and circumstances here. Maxwell's in court. Now she's speaking to her defense attorney. This is Christian ever. This is prior to the testimony of Kate. So we see with some glasses on. Now, first time I've seen that. Very interesting. She's got some glasses she's masked up, and then Kate starts her testimony. So we know the government prosecutor is Laura. PANCE witness testifying under the name. Kate comes forward, sketch artist . Us don't draw her. All right , Ms . Pran says, jurors, please pick up your binders, turn to exhibit 16. It's under seal. So we don't know what that is. Good morning, Kate, can you tell me what kinda work do you do? Well, I work with women who are victims of trauma. What did you do before that? I was a musician and a singer. How'd you meet? Meet Ms. Maxwell ? Well, I had a boyfriend introduced me to her when I was in Paris. And when did you next? See Ms. Maxwell ? Okay. A few weeks later, I went to her home for tea , saw a photo of her with a man with salt and pepper hair. Find out who it was. Yes, I did Jeffrey Epstein. So we see a fast progression here from inner city press he's on Twitter. Give him a follow, basically starts off very casually. Okay. Now you work with women. Who've been abused in facing trauma, as we're gonna learn, you faced very interesting pre prior to that, though, you were a musician and a singer. You ran into miss max. She invited you over for tea . How'd that go? We go back over to class field . Now class field says the tea invitation was to her house. Kate says she seemed very exciting. She seemed to be everything I wanted to be. Kate said, I recall a photograph of a slightly older man with peppered and gray hair. That was EP when they had tea . When Kate went over there, she says I had a really lovely time and I felt special. And I felt that I found a new connection could be very meaningful for me. I left there feeling exhilarated. She says like someone wanted to be her friend, Kate quoted Maxwell. And Epstein said, she said that he was a philanthropist. And that he liked to help young people. Kate said that , uh , gal told her that you're exactly the type of person that Epstein would wanna help. She was only 17 and that she was lonely and hadn't found a group of friends yet. And then it progresses. Now this is all with Maxwell. She's having tea with Maxwell. She's having these conversations with Maxwell, but then there comes a time. Did you ever meet Epstein? Yeah, I did says Kate. He seemed to be like he was in, in his forties. We met at Maxwell's townhouse. She invited me over. Epstein was in sweat clothes. Speaking on the phone. Very loudly Maxwell told him I was surprisingly strong for my size. So he asked for a massage. He said he liked it. Class field tells it a different way. Says Maxwell went into Epstein. Epstein was over there at Maxwell's townhouse Maxwell invites Kate over soon as Kate walks in Epstein's the phone in his sweats. So he is, is listening. Maxwell says, Hey, Mr. Epstein, this is the girl that I told you about. She's strangely strong for her size. Asked what size she was. She responded that she's about 95 pounds. She said, why don't you give this feet a little squeeze to show him how strong you , you are. Give his feet. Just a little squeeze says Maxwell Palm Marin says. And did you do that? Yes, I did. She says, Kate says that Epstein's massaged therapist canceled. And that Maxwell asked if she could fill in prosecutor says, were you of a massage therapist at that time? She says I was not . Then Maxwell told me that my hands were so strong. Oh, this is a different take from inner city . Did she, did she, after that massage, did Maxwell tell you how long that Epstein or how often Epstein needed massages? Maxwell's lawyer? Objection. That's leading. Sustained. They skip over that. How often did he need massages? Well, we don't know. The judge skips over that prosecutor continues. What was Epstein wearing was a robe. He took it off. What was he wearing under that? Nothing. He was naked. Was Maxwell there? Yes. And did Epstein initiate sexual contact with UK ? Yes, he did. What happened next Maxwell said , uh, how'd it go? Did you have fun after it was over during the massage class field reports afterwards? Same questions from Maxwell. Kate says that Maxwell sounded really pleased and I was pleased that she was pleased. Then we get back to these outfits during the massage, Laura Pran says, all right , Kate, when you gave Epstein this massage, and when you were doing this stuff, did he give you anything to wear answer? I was given a school girl outfit, boom, process executors . Get that in. Testimony is now made available. Kate describes it as a short pleaded skirt, white Sox , a shirt all happened in Palm beach. She says, why did you put on that outfit? Kate says, I didn't know how to say no to that. I didn't know anybody in Florida. I'd never been beach or Florida before. I wasn't sure if I said no, if I would have to leave or what the consequence there would be for not doing it. So I did Later on Kate says that Maxwell told me that I've gotta find somebody to give Epstein, massages a , of a different variety and that he needs those three times a day. Prosecutor says when you first met Maxwell and Epstein, what did you think that they were boyfriend and girlfriend direct exam continues. Laura Pran says, all right , Kate, what? Tell me , tell me what else Maxwell told you. Me Maxwell carries on Maxwell told me Kate, that she was friends with prince Andrew, Donald Trump. The names would just come up in conversation. And did Epstein give you anything or, or how about Maxwell? What gifts did you receive from Maxwell? I got a small Prada bag from my 18th birthday. Oh you did? Huh? After you slept with Epstein? Yeah. After. Oh, a nice black Prada bag, right after that act with Epstein convenient prosecutor says, were you given clothes? Yeah. It's a short skirt school. Alfred uniform. And did there come a time when you stopped communicating with Epstein? Yeah. How old were you? In my late twenties. And were you compensated Kate by the Epstein victims fund? Yes, I was. And are you planning to Sue Maxwell, Kate ? No. I'm not judge. Nathan says we're gonna take a break now jurors, doesn't talk about snack. So I'm not sure if they got hot pockets today or not, but of course go check out the podcast and they're reporting from inner city press. So they go to a break. We're still in direct exam. We've got Laura Palmer . She's doing the direct exam. If Kate still don't know who she is, an Epstein victim, a Maxwell victim, but not somebody who is a , a named victim. Them in the indictment. Apparently. So why are we talking about her? We're gonna see Adam class field picks up, says that we're back. Kate. Now after the break says, tell me about going to Epstein's island. How old were you? I was in my early twenties at the time. And what did , uh, what island did you go to? She calls a at little Saint . Jeff talks about remembering the island. I remember seeing a blonde slim girl who seemed far younger than me at the time. Uh , very young Kate at the time says that she was addicted to cocaine, alcohol sleeping pills. This is on direct examination. Maxwell's attorney attorney, as we learned during the opening argument said that she used drugs during a period of time and that it fogged her memory. Right. And so we've got now Kate saying, yeah, I was addicted back then. Alcohol sleeping pills, cocaine, everything. And what was Bobby stern? Heim's opening memory, money and manipulation. Memory's the first one. Lot of I don't recalls from Jane gonna be making that same argument here from Kate. It carries on. She asked Kate, why are you testifying here today under a pseudonym? Don't you use your real name? She's got a child. She does not want that child to be associated with this testimony. Boom, direct examination ends. And so we start asking ourselves what exactly is Kate doing here in the government scheme of the line of questioning. They've got a number of different <affirmative> witnesses that they've called, but do you remember the one that stood out the most? We've got Dr . Lisa Rocko . Why was she brought in? She laid out the framework for grooming. Remember this from the mine map, which you can go browse yourself. If you'd like to get the link [email protected] But what you can do is notice here, we've got those five L elements laid out. Step one, identify step two, get access. Step three, lies, deception, step four, physical touching, step five touching. So how does Kate fit in while those elements of grooming? We heard all of that from Kate and our good friend, Joe Neman over at had logic on YouTube was there in court today. Here's his reaction to that exact line of questioning that took place today, here he is

Speaker 3:

Day six and today we were introduced to Kate, the pseudonym for the second alleged victim of Jeffrey Epstein. Now she was of eight at the time that she met Jeffrey Epstein, an Maxwell. The purpose of bring her in here, aim to have been, to show how gal was instrumental in the grooming process on behalf of trying to satisfy Jeffrey Epstein's insatiable sexual appetite. So we could check off our boxes and see step one. She was living in London and she was pretty much impoverished. She was taken to Paris on a trip with her boyfriend, where she met and told her about her financial struggles and about her family difficulties. Couple weeks later, she gets isolated step two, by being invited Toine Maxwell's house at where she ends up being praised and complimented as how special she is and how wonderful she is and getting all sorts of positive attention and told how Jeffrey Epstein can help make her grow O into the woman that she's hoping to become. She then gets introduced to Jeffrey Epstein, and we see that we already checked off box three with, with all the promises about how life is gonna be so great by forming a relationship with Epstein. And when she meets him, she's they compliment her strong hands and how she seems like she's much stronger than she looks. And that sets them up for step four. She's a invited a couple weeks back to come to GA's Maxwell's house. Yet again, this time under a pretense that Epstein's mass suicide canceled. And since you have such strong hands, perhaps you can step in and fill the void today and no sooner does she get in there. Then Galene walks her into the room, closes the door behind her, and she ends up experiencing a class Epstein massage. Now , when she comes out, Kala Maxwell shows that this was all pretext and that she knew was gonna happen. Cuz she started Gidley laughing with her about how was it? Did you have fun? Wasn't it great. And trying to desensitize her step four. And finally she describes how she was afraid to leave this relationship and was stuck there for 15 years because she knew how powerful Epstein was, what type of connections he had and how she felt that she was scared to leave. So we can see how the state is trying to use Kate's story as a way of showing Colleen's direct involvement in the grooming process. And it seems that it probably was fairly effective. That's what I got for today. Catch soon .

Speaker 1:

Boom, love that. So that is some good legal in a analysis right there from Joe Neman. Good logic on YouTube. And if you're on YouTube, he is uh , tagged down in the description. So make sure you head on over there and subscribe. You know, it's such an interesting thing to watch this trial because we're reading transcripts and sort of , uh , you know , reading reports from other journalists and he's actually there watching it. So if you wanna full well rounded take on it, go follow Joe. And his analysis was spot on. I mean basically what the government is doing is they're, they're , they're doing a , a big Iraq . And so in law school, they teach you how to , uh , do legal analysis the way you do it is you identify what the issue is. What do you, what's the problem here? What's the issue? That's I then you say, well, what's the rule. We know what the issue is. Do we have a rule for that issue? We've got rules for everything in the law. I, and then we say, well, what's the analysis or what's the application of the rule to the facts of this case. And then we come to a conclusion and that's exactly what the government is doing here. They brought out Rocky , they say, what's the issue grooming. What's the rule, these five elements, what's the application. Boom. You just heard it from Joe brilliantly applied every single one of, sort of the , the different to Kate's testimony. And then the conclusion that the government wants you to walk away with is grooming. And guess who was involved in that Maxwell because of her proximity to this entire situation. And so , uh , again , Joe Neman is over , uh , uh , boots on the ground. So make sure you give him a follow. And as he was talking, I happened to check my Twitter DMS, given my ultimate blunder from this morning. And he says here, Hmm , by the way, nobody in law was even remotely offended by you being protective of your work product <laugh> and he says, I'd like to invite you back into the group. So I ejected from the group. I pulled the ejection cord from the group chat because I, I, I , I blundered, I pulled it. I said P and I , I checked it out of there. Jo Joe is the coast guard he's coming to save me. Thank you, Joe. Love you to death. I appreciate you. Okay. So that was the direct examination of Kate. Wonder who that is. Now we have to go to the cross examination . So remember that we've got two people on , uh , uh , I'm sorry, two sides to this. And so one of the things that we're sort of missing in a lot of these are the redirect examin. So remember how this goes. It's the direct exam government's case in chief , still they're calling their witnesses. They're calling a forward. Kate . Now the defense gets to cross examine her. And we've seen a pattern from the defense thus far. I mean , from what I can tell, what , what I can gather is that they're sort of, they can be pretty aggressive with some of their witnesses. We heard this even from Joe and many other comment is out there that when I think it was Jeff Paka , the G is silent when he was cross examining Juan lessi Epstein's former housekeeper. He was pretty aggressive with them from, from the sound of it, you know, really sort of dialing down, digging into those depositions. You said this, and you said this, and you said this in 2019, but this you're saying this now and sort of, you know, real really saying, well, you also sounds like you bought , you bought a , uh , a multi-family property. You've got multi-millions of dollars. You've got a million dollar property investment, and you divorced your wife too. And you did all of these things, right? Very aggressive and Joe, and some people were also speculating that maybe it was a little too much, you know, maybe if you're beating up one less and this guy has, you know , uh , English as a set , he's got a thick accent. These, you know, white defense lawyers are beating him up over the English language and he , he's not trying to lie to anybody. He just doesn't speak the language. And maybe that comes off as you know, offensive or rude to the jurors. And maybe that's just a little bit too , uh , too, too aggressive. In other words, and you have to sort of bounce these things out, which is why you bring in these cases. As you're gonna see a woman to cross examine a woman, we saw that when we had Jane guess who cross examined her Laura Menninger, they didn't put Jeff Paco up there. Paco . The G is silent. Ugh , they're gonna do the same thing. Now it's cross examination time. Guess who we hear from Bobby stern Heim she's now here, we're gonna get a quick summary from this fellow he's at inner city press doing great work reporting. Here's what he had to say about Bobby stern. Heim. He's gonna give us a quick recap on Kate, but then he's gonna tell us what, what Bobby, she kind of came out aggressive. She's setting the tone pretty aggressively. Here he is.

Speaker 4:

Well, here we are inner city breath here in Foley square. It's the midday break in us versus Maxwell , um, on the witness stand all morning, pseudonymous witness Kate. Um, she was in London Maxwell, recruited her to give a massage and then sexual contact with Jeffrey Epstein. She was really seemed pretty devastated by it all devastated, but on cross examination , just now Maxwell's lawyer known as , uh , Bobby stern , Heim, well known Southern district , uh , individual , uh, she represents, you know, norm normal people under the , uh , normal people under the criminal justice act, Bobby stern Heim, pretty much outed and, and pretty much trashed. Uh, Kate. She said things like , uh, you were on drugs for 10 years, weren't you? Uh, didn't you marry an affluent restaurant tour to which , uh, Bobby stern Heim said, said , uh, well, a man who had two restaurants, I guess that makes you a restaurant tour .

Speaker 1:

Ooh . So you see that there now that's, that's one of those little lines that you're not gonna get into transcript anywhere . You know , he's not gonna say that that's a , that's a legally N necessary point. Whether the guy owns a restaurant and no , nobody cares about that. That's inconsequential to Maxwell's criminal case. He's not gonna type that into a tweet, but it shows you what Bobby stern Heim was doing when she gets in there being very, very aggressive. So , oh , uh , so your husband, he's a , so in addition to all your millions and all this other money and you know , this comp blah , blah , your husband, he's also a arrest on tour , isn't he? Well , I don't know that he's a restaurant tour . Well, does he own two restaurants? Yeah, he does. Well then I guess he's a restaurant tour , isn't he? I guess so, you know, it's like, like beating her up over those little words and you know, you can see nobody's gonna make a big deal of that as a reporter. But as a juror, you're sitting there going do , going for the jugular on this person here and just, you know, it's probably like that. And, and you know, I don't , obviously, I've never seen Bobby stern Heim sort of in action in this trial, nobody has, but based on her credentials, I'm guessing that she is , uh , you know, knife fighting in there slicing and dicing every which way. And his testimony gives us a hint of that. So now that we know how that's going, let's take a look back at the transcript, Bobby stern , Heim in court. All right . Kate, you had a beautiful mother, didn't you? Yes, I did. And your father was rich and you lived in be gravy section of London also, right? Yes. And you were an international model, right on top of all that. Yeah, I was a model and you're dating an older prominent gentleman who was what? Oxford classmate of Glen . Right. <laugh> so you're , so your , your boyfriend back then was in , in Oxford. Got it. And you were a model for a UK version of what Victoria's secret. So you're basically like, you know, supermodel, extraordinaire. Uh, she says, no , uh , the company failed almost right away. Oh, but you were a lingerie model, weren't you? Yes, I was. Okay. So just like you showed your body off in, in scantly CLA clothing or whatever she did, and Bobby's gonna beat up on that. Okay . This is just one module of the testimony, but I'm guessing that she probably spent a good five minutes on that. Oh yeah. And so what'd you do ? And so that required you to wear what? Uh , uh , well, it required me to wear, you know , um, a female coverup on underwear, air under bras. Right. You had to wear bras didn't you? Yeah. And nothing else on your body. Right. And you had to take pictures and those pictures went out in magazines all over the world, didn't they? Yeah, they did. And you also had to wear , uh , uh , uh , panties or thongs. Is that right? Yeah. And you had to put those and just like really just, you know, grinding that in there. It's not gonna be as simple as , uh , but you , you were a lingerie model, right? Yes, no, no, no. They're gonna open that up big time and they're gonna play around with that. So basically what you're saying is you put on scant clothes and sold your body and your image for money. Is that about right. And the , you know, and, and she's gonna just, Ooh , I'm sure it was brutal. So stern Heim goes on and says, all right , Kate. So you're in a piano bar and you're discovered by the musician , uh , seal. Right? She says, no, but you said that though, that you acted in movies. Well , I did not have any speaking roles. You know , I , I didn't actually talk in the movies. Okay. But you were in a , in a movie with a very well known UK actor, weren't you? Yes. Hmm . Yes I was. Yeah. Okay. And you also spoke here right here, publicly in this courthouse, your name didn't you, you used your name, you were invited by a judge in this courthouse, judge, Berman to speak and you spoke didn't you? Yeah, I did. So the obvious question, why are you not speaking now? Why are you not using your name publicly? You spoke in your own name previously. You came here before judge Berman had you here, you came here. You were singing from the rooftops there, Kate, but now we're calling you Kate in this court and now you don't wanna talk. Why is that very curious? Why would somebody who was willing and , and available to be publicly open and confronted and accountable now? Not suddenly. Why? Good question. Stern Heim says, all right . And you've spoken with Guffy , Virginia. Robert Guffy . Yeah, I did. Yeah . And you also used drugs for 10 years, didn't you? Yes, I did. And you dated other men, right? Yes. I dated other men. And you even married one of them. Are you asking me if I've been married, you were with a prominent restaurant to who weren't you while I was with a man who owned two restaurants. And as he tells us stern , Heim says, while , I guess that would make him a restaurant tour . Wouldn't it? That's plural. Stern . Heim keeps digging into this. All right , Kate, didn't a tabloid. Encourage you to get a man connected to the Royal family to buy cocaine . Did you set him up? Not exactly. She says. And that became a big tabloid spectacular, right? I suppose. Well, now you can identify that. Right? Royal family, cocaine tabloid, 1990s buying cocaine. Boom. There's her identity? Stern Heim says, were you LA , when were you last in contact with Epstein? Oh , I don't know . 30 at my thirties. Give me a date. Bobby says, gimme a date. Well, I don't have a date. Okay. Well, how old are you? 44. All right . Well here's the year 44 subtract 14 years from that in your thirties and in this range. And so again, that module, this one tweet is probably a whole big, just beating, beat , just round houses , BA , BA , BA . So you don't even know, you don't even know when it was. I can't give you a date. Okay. So you were in your thirties. Were you 31? Were you 32? Were you 33? Were you 34? How about 35? How about 36? How about 37 ? All the way up? Well, I don't have a date . Oh, cuz you don't remember. Right, right. Exactly what I thought. And you just tie that right back to memory, bullet point number one. I can't recall cuz I can't pin it down. Stern Heim continues. Aren't you trying to get a victim's visa? Isn't this your name on this document? Uh , my visa application is, you know , based on extra an variability , uh , which one music teaching to treat trauma. Uh, so you're trying to get a victim's visa. In other words, you're trying to stay in this country on a victim's visa, cuz you're a victim. So if you want so, so lemme get this straight. You be in this country. And the only mechanism that you're using right now to do this is to get a victim's visa that would allow you to stay here. And if you're not a victim, then you don't get to stay here. Oh no. Has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with my extraordinary ability. What's that? Uh , music. Yeah. I teach music to treat trauma. Okay. So that's your extraordinary ability Bobby says. Yeah, it is. And, and uh, what do you have to do to become a music teacher to treat trauma? In other words, any unlicensed music coach can get it. Right? Okay. So maybe she's biased. Maybe she doesn't actually care one way or the other. What happens to Maxwell or Epsteins? She just needs her victim's visa to go through. She just was applying for an application to be here. Victim's visa sounds pretty good. She was in the, in the entourage from the defense framing of Epstein and Maxwell. This is very convenient. Now for her paid a bunch of money already from a , you know, big, wealthy family. She wants to get a visa. She's using a victim's visa. She's using some bizarre, ridiculous reason for it. Music teaching for trauma. What are you doing? Banging on drums, lady. Any unlicensed music coach can get it. Right? Right . So then stern Heim finishes and says, I got nothing further on this one. Redirect prosecutor comes out. They have a conversation and they wrap it up. Judge Nathan says, all right , let's take a break. No redirect on that. I sent looks like, so then we come back. They have lunch. We get our next witness in a minute. Let's see what we have here. Inner city press is reporting. Next guy up is Patrick MCQ . We talk about a slew of financial exhibits. We've got one talking about 7.4 million that are going from chase Morgan over to Epstein. All right . So this is the actual guy. Uh , we don't have a photograph for him. So Patrick McKee is here. JP chase Morgan . Once again, Laura Palmer answer is doing the questioning. Patrick McCue says I'm an officer of the firm I can speak to who is to authorize access to the accounts and the like, so this is all gonna be financial stuff we've got Palmer says we got a whole slew of financial exhibits. We'll see when we get access this yeah. Things kind of slow down here pending getting all these exhibits. The current one shows a wire transfer between Epstein and Maxwell. We've got 7.4 million bucks. According to this guy. Now he's being asked about a helicopter purchase. We've got different exhibits. They're shown on the screen. They're all blurry. And so we can't really see anything about what's going on here. Max, as lawyer says, this document, doesn't go into approved it though, right? Yes. The statement does not. Okay. So , uh , pretty something pretty simple here is happening basically. It's it's Patrick McCue , JP Morgan chase, just coming out and confirming a couple of transactions happened and that's really all he testifies about. We get a little bit more detail here from , uh , the New York post. He was a really quick witness. So not much came outta him. One transaction, October 19th, 1999 says , uh , showed that 18.3 million was wired to Maxwell's bear Stern's account 18.3 million, another 5 million funneled over to Maxwell in 2002. Is that money coming from was question wire transfers between Glenn Maxwell's account. We're talking about 23.3 million bucks , JP Morgan, Jeffrey Epstein. A lot of money. So we, we basically, all these are showing is that these transfers took place. Epstein's defense attorneys are saying, so what they don't show who approved it. Right. They just show that it happened. Doesn't mean that Jeffrey Epstein did it doesn't mean that go Maxwell did it. They're worth of , do you know how many , how many, you know , millions of dollars that they funnel all over the place? 22.3 million that's tip money, man. That's tip money. All right . So they continue and that's it. That's all we get outta him. And then our final, we got two final witnesses of the day. This is Ms. Kelly McGuire . And again, a lot of these people because their government , uh , you know , police, if we can't see 'em we can't identify a photograph for them. And so they have of course the most generic names ever. Kelly McGuire . All right . So I'm not gonna find anything about her. Ms. Kelly McGuire . We have an FBI person who is , uh, standing in for her as a photograph. She is now testifying. All right . Prosecutor says , all right , Ms. McGuire , special agent McGuire . What do you see here? Well, this is the front view of the residence at nine E 71st street. Recognize that address. Oh yeah. That's Epstein's New York residence. Oh, very curious. So they went over there and said when there was no response, we forced our way in. Remember when they raided his property back in 2019 , this is what we're talking about . Now . Prosecutor says, okay, when you were searching and raid Epstein's place, did you come across the massage room? On the third floor? Yeah, we did. And uh , this photo 9 0 2 R is the entrance to the massage room. What about 9 0 3 R? Well that's actually the massage room. Pictures on the walls are redacted. Remember we were talking about some of those pictures. I think there was a picture of a young, I think it was a young gal, you know, sort of a young girl, maybe sort of, you know, naked, I think is how the testimony was. I forget what it was, but concerning images for anybody. And so what the defense said is we can't let the jurors see those. If they see those, it's gonna be too damning for our client. If they see those, that's just gonna be enough. They're just gonna go, oh God, that photo that guy's a pedophile. Don't even need to talk about it anymore. Cuz he's got that on his wall . Yeah, that's it. So the defense is saying, it's wait, look, we're not, we're not on trial for having disgusting photos on your wall. Okay. We're on trial for these specific allegations. If somebody sees a disgusting photo on your wall and they presume maybe rightfully so that they can make a logical conclusion that because you had a photograph here that you're guilty of , of this, it might be true, but that's not logically consistent. Okay? One thing is not necessarily connected to the other. You don't get to convict somebody of a crime just because a bunch of stuff doesn't feel right. This guy's weird. He's got all these weird things going on, but you need, you need more there because a lot of people are very weird. We don't want all those people going to jail. So they're fighting over this and you can see here that the pictures are actually being redacted. So when the jurors are seeing these images, the , those disgusting photos on the wall, they're not seeing those. So the defense is saying, look, we want just a , a clear shake, a clear clean shot at this decide whether she did these acts that are alleged in the indictment. Don't let these pictures or these, you know, torpedoes or cucumbers or pickles or any of these other things out there make their way into the minds of the jurors and overly bias them over, you know, become overly prejudicial. So they're trying to throw that stuff out and it's , uh, working look , looks like it's working now because we don't get much testimony from, from these individuals. A lot of this stuff is images, right? Showing, showing us what they were were doing back then when she was a part of this raid, we can poke around a little bit and see a , what actually happened back in 2019. So I think that we are gonna see a lot of these exhibits that came out during the FBI testimony today, but rather than wait for those things, let's see if we can piece some of this together. So we saw that from the New York post that back in 2019 , you see this article posted July 8th, 2019 , that the feds found vast TRO of photos in his safe. And this is in his New York apartment. Remember the, we we've talked a lot about this place. This is what the outside door looked like. This is an FBI agent who's carrying , uh , evidence taken from Epstein's upper east side townhouse. And so we've seen sort of the , the front photograph of this many different times, it's in the indictment and a number of different , um , number of different angles of it. But this was from this prosecution back then in 2019, we had a different us attorney who was in charge there. This is Jeffrey Berman. Now we've got Dami and Williams, but you know, they were saying, Hey, you recognize this person. If you're a victim call FBI one 800, we got an 800 number call us. And so this is , is what they're talking about. So as I mentioned at the start of the show, when we were going through the Palm beach residence , when we were sort of, you know , meandering around through, because Parkinson was communicating about what he saw. And then we heard from Dawson who told us what he saw, same thing is gonna happen here out of New York. We just basically ran out of time. So we're gonna pick back up with that tomorrow. Let's wrap up testimony from inner city press. All right , McGuire's done. So it's at , uh , you know , it's got like 10 minutes left in the court date, judge Nathan, who is a stickler for time. All right , government, we got, we got like 10 minutes left. You have anybody else you can squeeze in here? Prosecutor says , uh , yeah, actually we do. Uh , does each FBI investigation have its own number? The agent says, yeah. Uh, calls up another FBI agent. All right . Did you review CDs in 2020 ? Yeah, I did it with somebody else called Amelia young. And I don't know what the name of this FBI agent is. And so that's it prosecution says, all right , we offer into evidence, this photo of Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell . So yet another photo we got 10 minutes in one FBI agent checks in and out, judge Nathan says, all right , I guess we're gonna break for the day. Then jurors have a good night counsel. Anything else? Maxwell's attorneys say? Yeah, we object of the photo of our client lying on the boat. And so that's what we have today. Maxwell trial day six. I don't think we have any other updates today. No, we do not. So sort of a, a full, full court date, but a lot of this is gonna be able to be unpacked, not today because a lot of exhibits came out. We can see that they we're talking about a lot of different photographs, all took place in that New York property. And so as soon as those exhibits start to trickle out, we'll update the mind map . Of course you can now view the mind map . If you remember [email protected] as we continue to update it in the meantime, let's see what you have to say over from our [email protected] and little Panda Cub gave us a super chat. Uh, legal Eagle was not in that , uh , group in that group chat, but thank you for asking about that little Panda Cub . All right . So let's see what else we've [email protected] . All right . So we're gonna get outta the mind map . Couple questions here before we get up outta here for the day we got Sergeant Bob is here, says , uh , greetings from the always beautiful and sunny Chino valley, Arizona. I like the rulings on the artwork and the toys and admission of the school uniforms makes a lot of sense. Good judge. So far artwork and the toys. Yeah. As those might be overly prejudicial admission of the school of forms makes a lot of sense. Good judge. So far from Sergeant Bob. I agree with you, Sergeant Bob, I think pretty, you know , pretty fair rulings. I think thus far I don't, I don't see them. I don't see this judge being too one sided one way or the other yet. We're still in the early phases of this thing. English. Dave says, Rob, have you ever noticed, if you swap initials, then you become gob ruler. Is that accurate? Are you a gob ruler? Wow. Well, I don't know. I mean, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Sort of sounds like a , a gob ruler. Gob stoppers are good. Good question. English, Dave, I don't know if it's a bad thing. Probably thunder seven says chill, dude . Nobody cares. They know you as Rob the lawyer in a YouTuber. Yes . Okay. So yeah, I don't wanna indulge this too much, so thank you for the , for the support. Thunder seven. Yeah. So, so I was just, I was just eating Crow for myself , but I don't wanna indulge it too much. Thank you for your support. Thunder seven they're they're , they're all a bunch of good people over there, so I'm sure they'll get it. Monster one says , uh , I'm a little disappointed <laugh> okay. So, okay. Uh , the only appropriate action to getting that message would've been to steal the content. Think you're being a little hard on yourself. Pretty sure they knew you were talking about legal Schmiegel and other people outside your group. My first thought was, I wonder if they can add hunter and Joe Biden to it, LOL <laugh> I can do that. I can do that. No, look, look, I , I , I know I am making a big deal about it, but I just felt like a buffoon and I thought it would be a funny story to come and share with you cuz it , it , you know, it's look , look, we all do boneheaded stuff from time to time and I stepped in it today. So as pure is the freshly fallen, snow says not sure what rooms you were looking for. What were you really expecting them to show public whips chains, straps, dominatrix, paraphernalia Epstein. Certainly wasn't the top for anything <laugh> this is a family show and you didn't put a name on there. All right . So , um, swings, you know, swings. Well , we got the torpedoes in there, so, you know, that's another thing. A lot of activity spawn dog says, if you can't trust the good folks at the FBI, who can you trust? Come on, Rob, read off last week's comment. All parties involved are likely dead and I'm the only one left. It happened like 30 years ago. Spawn dog . I've totally lost track of what you're talking about . Now, do we have a conversation about this last week? Thunder seven says once again, they are trying to turn the attention to Trump who never went to the island, never went on the express. It was bill Clinton who went the frequent flyer on the plane and the island and photos of him being massaged. 99% of the guests were Democrats. So not surprising that the Democrats Southern district of New York, they want to dive vert attention. They are pathetic. That's from thunder seven. Thank you for that thunder seven. They are, they are really taking every opportunity they can to , uh, to , to smear Trump's name. No question about that. They're not they're they're using that name a lot more than the others. Now, the reason I think so is because this is a New York jury and they're gonna love that. They're gonna love either side that comes in and just keeps smashing Trump cuz they're new Yorkers, demographically speaking. I would think three girly says first, I don't know how these jurors actually eat during this case. It's a good question. Like how do you get up after your direct exam of Kate and you just walk in and you're like, man, this hot pocket it's really to hit in the spot right now. How's yours. What kinds you get pepperoni pizza. You know they got the garlic chicken over there. Oh they do? Oh, well I guess I'll go have to have that one. But your point is right and I should make light of it. Next three. Girly says, all right , sadly, the addiction goes along with the trauma. Might not remember a whole lot for a lot of reasons, but it sounds like the interaction with Kate started with Maxwell does make you wonder how many of these interactions truly started with Maxwell instead of Epstein? Yeah, it's, it's a good 0.3 girlies . And I think that, you know, it's like the ying and the yang to some degree, you know, you sort of need like both, both parts of this thing to work appropriately. Like, you know, they're , they're both predators and they created an environment where they could support one another. You know, Epstein's got all these funds and you know, nice things and uh , contacts and acquaintances and, and you know, sort of, he can show what he's got. The , the glitz and the glamor Maxwell, you know, is sort of , but , but he's a man and he can't kind of go insert himself into these, into these situations. Glenn Maxwell , you know, is a socialite , British socialite, a lot of respect, people just, oh wow , she's great. And they just let her in there. And then she brings, which is exactly what the prosecutors are saying. That she is the person who is really the mastermind behind of the grooming Jeffrey . Epstein's, he's a predator. He's a disgusting creep in all of that. Yeah, that's fine. But he is just a big, dumb Beon . He doesn't know anything. He needs a goin Maxwell. He needs a ying to the yang to go out there and you know, actually use that charisma, that charm, that seduction power to bring him in here. It's the frog and the boiling pot, start it low and just turn that temperature up and boom, you're at stage five. Now you've got a full blown , uh , abuse case, but you can't really have it without either one, like both are necessary in order for the situation to develop. If it's just Glen while she doesn't have Epstein's money, if it's just Epstein while she doesn't have Glen's soft touch and her , her sort of ensnaring of the youth. And I think that's, that's, you know , that's the prosecutor's most effective argument. The defense is gonna say that they're just making this all about Epstein. Glenn was a victim of Epstein. No, she was exactly on par. She was as bad as him, if not worse, because she was the person who is going out and doing stage one and stage two and stage three Epstein by, by and large was mostly just sort of the recipient of this. He just, I want a massage, go get a girl. So they, they, they need to, the prosecution needs to reclaim some of that villain and shove it right back on Matt X . Well , she was direct. She was directing all of this. Did you see, even in the house manual, she said, don't look at me in the eyeballs. That's what an evil person. She was remember Juan , unless said lady of the house. She was in charge of everything, Juan, unless also said that when Maxwell came in the entire relationship between Juan and Jeffrey changed, they were buddies, Jay, Jay , Juan, and Jeffrey just, you know, hanging out like old pals. And then Glen came in and everything changed. Ugh . He got a girlfriend thought you hate when that happens, never returns. My text never shows up to the parties anymore. She's changed him, man. And that's exactly what happened. Glen changed Epstein and Juan didn't like it. They're calling him John now. So the whole thing became a gigantic problem. Not because of Epstein because of Golin she's the mastermind here. And so three girl is , I think you're exactly right. And the prosecution is going to certainly key in on that. She was the groomer, not Epstein. Couple more questions here. We we've got mama go is here. Uh , how exactly does one maintain homes in Palm beach and a private island while needing and obtaining three massages a day when one is in their forties and at the theoretical busiest time in one's career and not a trust fund baby? Well, he , he had a lot of money. I can't even fit one massage a weekend. That would be if I could afford it on my measly accountant salary in the branded economy. Again, I still believe this whole case is frustrating waste of time. I'm never gonna get to these really substantive questions, answers. I have a deep seated desire to follow the money in this case. And I doubt that that will ever happen. That's from mama go . Yeah. Well, you know, he's worth many, many hundreds of millions. If not billions, I don't know if he's a billionaire, but a lot of money, a lot of money. And so yeah, he had massages and Mauss that just followed him around. So it's a lot easier to have massages if you just say, sounds good right now, let's go, you know, and you have nothing else to do because you're a hundred millionaire billionaire. And I guess, I guess your job maybe is to just in snare people in your little honey pots, maybe that is your job. Who knows? Good to see you. Mama go , Greg Mora says, Hey Rob, sorry. I couldn't reply. Last Friday I was driving, but I was listening. I'm glad you liked it. And yes, it's similar theme to rugby, but also different. Hey, by the way, can you see it back there? It's right back there. So Greg got sent me that, that Australian , uh, football, Australian rules , football direct from one of the coolest things ever. It was adopted from the Aboriginal game called Martin group, actually older than Australia is a country. Amazing oldest club in Australia is the Melbourne football club back to 1858. Also my favorite club, however, we're terrible. Last time we won a championship was in 1964 until this year, all the players who brought home the championship championship after almost 60 years are on your ball. That's so awesome, dude. Super cool. Also, sorry to hear about mindmap gate <laugh> uh , can you can redeem yourself by making the Melbourne football club, the official AFL team of watching the Watchers. Our sandals include losing so badly during the season that we get first draft picks the following year. Yeah. So what do I get demo most to on lot ? I , I got demoted. What am I <laugh> first? Do I get first draft pick? All right . It's pretty good. That's pretty good. Maybe there's a , a silver lining here, Greg. And thank you so much for sending that. I love it. I put it right back up there behind me. Uh , it's super cool. I don't know much about it. Australian rules football, but uh , several people actually on rumble were commenting about that. And so I, I was like , I, I didn't even, almost, I literally didn't know that was a thing even. So I've got a lot to learn, but you're educating me and I appreciate it. A couple more three girly says no, a regular music teacher cannot be a musical therapist. And an art therapist is not the same thing as a teacher. Either these therapists specialize in therapies that deal with art and music, they take extra are training and certifications outside of becoming a counselor or therapist. Not just any therapist is trained to deal with trauma either. They are special trainings and certification too. Stern Heim was definitely trying to muddy the water with that kind of questioning. You're right about that three girlies . It's very condescending. Isn't it? Oh, a music teacher. Yeah. What kind of music do you teach? Uh, trauma music. Oh, really? People who are traumatized like with drums and stuff and like you bang on drums. Yeah. Do you need special? Are credentials for that? Right . And so you , you like three girls , if you're on that jury and you're hearing Bobby stern Heim like lace into this woman. Oh, you're a, the you're a music therapist. Got it . Okay. Being condescending like that, you're instantly turned off. You don't like the defense at all. If you're somebody you know of a different mindset, maybe you do legal Eagle is here. Oh , what a jerk off topic says, everyone should come check out my new mind map , video on the Glen Maxwell trial. I just made it <laugh>. This is why I had to talk about it because I needed, I needed to just get some abuse and just get outta the system, you know? Oh , monster one says, sorry, but I don't believe Kate . She's obviously a gold Digger who willingly put herself in the situation. She saw the Epstein compensation fund and saw dollar signs. That's from monster one. Ooh , monster one. That's a spicy one. Are you blaming the victim here? Good to see you. Uh, we have a speech on leash says that pink, blue and pastel decorating style of room seemed aimed at younger females. Very interesting speech. Yeah. Or , or , or was that just the nineties thing? I don't know. Yeah. I guess, I mean, look like there was some weird stuff going on with those photos and those pictures, because we saw the pictures of sort of the , uh, the, the Barney look a like kind of like a , like a Barney doll was in a picture with all the little , uh , gems and stuff around it. Some something that you might see like in a young girl's room, but like Epstein wasn't like, they weren't like, you know, that young, they weren't, you know, eight years old. I think, you know, these were sort of , you know, 14 I think was the lowest that we got and a 14 year old girl, they're not going and going, oh, that's Barbie or , or that's a Barney. So what's the pink, what's what the pink couch is . And the Pink's room is and all that. Right. I , I don't know. I don't the whole, the whole stinking thing is just so weird. Can't even make sense of it. I don't know. Monster one says, tell thunder seven to remember Trump used to be a Democrat until 16. He used to be friends with Hillary until he ran against her. Obama said Trump was the American dream until he switched sides. Yeah. They're all political, you know, losers. They all just point fears at point fingers at each other. Spawn dog is here, says you feared. It was a legal scenario about a lunatic who mace me and an incompetent da who after using me left out, left me out to drive. Like I said, it was 30 years ago. All parties are dead. <laugh> it was about how prosecutors use victims as paws, like me being used by that da. Okay. So a spawn dog resend that I I'm happy to share it. I just gotta be careful about not sharing too much personal information. Right. Because it's your, it's your case. I'm not your lawyer, but I just, my instinct is just, you know, be careful about that. All right . Let's see what else we've got we former EO is here, says usually in these types of cases, a co-conspirator started out as a victim and was groomed into the position of procurer. Co-conspirator was also a victim. Yeah. So start out as being abused and then you become the abuser, elevate yourself. We sort of saw that with that Nexium case, you know, they actually had like a higher R of abuse. You, you sort of work your way up to the top and then you go out and recruit other people, almost like a 12 step program or something. It was ridiculous. All right . And our last question here on the day, a little short show monster, one says, Rob , if you take the first letter of the , of each word in Australian Greg's message, it says help . I'm being held hostage by my government. So I saw that monster one. I didn't wanna reveal it. If you look further, you'll also noted that he embedded his GPS coordinates in there. So , uh , monster one, myself, I think chairman of the boards here, we've got former EO Sergeant bobs here , uh , all the guys with, you know, a little bit of experience in this stuff were in route, Greg, hang tight . We're coming for you brother. All right . And so that my friends is it for us for the day. Let me make sure , uh , give some final shout outs over on YouTube. Look, who's over there. We've got Lauren S we've got Tito Bandido we've Gott. Joe's we've got narrow. Deep Texas. Beast is here. What's up Zulu. We've got ninth chamber, Mel Stiller . We've got Samantha Richardson. We've got con Assie is here. It says, check out Ryan Dawson and learn things that will not be brought up in this trial. He went over this in 2008, by the way. That's from con assy . So let's take a look at this. Ryan Dawson fellow is Ryan Dawson over on YouTube there. Let's see if he's on YouTube and, and maybe give him a little bit of shout out on this. All right . So Ryan, well, this looks like a sort of a random Ryan Dawson. Probably not the one that you're talking about. How about the Ryan Dawson channel? Uh, mass removal. Uhoh well, I don't know what's going on. So yeah, so I'm having a hard time finding Ryan Dawson, but I'll keep looking for him and see if anything comes in on that one. But he covered this into 2008 . I know a lot of people have been covering this for a long time. So Ryan has been banned from YouTube is what they're telling me. Not good. All right . And let's see what's going on over at locals. I see speech unleashed as in the house we've got Raey is here. We've got , uh , ginger cross says ginger cross just joined up and following over on rumble and now joined up. Welcome ginger cross. Let's see, we saw Radis over there. And then actually over on rumble, we've got Adam C S C Rob. The only problem I have with you is that a lot of your streams are at the same time as Viva's, which is fair. Uh, DHA , witch , DHA , witch was not in that group, actually. Australian rules, football players. Yeah. So we've got Adam CSC. We've got TC T Y C H news are over on locals. Angela K is over. I'm sorry. Those are all over on rumbles over on local. We already read those. And so that my friends is it for me for the day. I wanna thank you for being here, being a part of the show. Thank you for letting me indulge in my , uh , galactic blunder of the day. Hopefully somebody laughs at that and has fun with that, but we're gonna be back here to do it all again tomorrow because we've got Glen Maxwell, trial day seven, we've got lot of , uh , you know , lot , a lot of runway left on this runway because we've got, I think until mid January of witnesses and closings and case in chiefs being presented by both sides. And we want you to be a part of it. So make sure you hit that subscribe button and stick around. We're gonna be back here . Same time, same place tomorrow to do it all again. And I wanna see you there. So , uh, 4:00 PM Arizona time, 5:00 PM, central 6:00 PM on the east coast. And for that one, Florida man, everybody else have a tremendous evening sleep very well. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. Bye bye .