Watching the Watchers with Robert Gouveia Esq.
Watching the Watchers with Robert Gouveia Esq.
Rittenhouse Trial Day 6 Recap: Gaige Grosskreutz Direct & Cross Exam, Crime Lab, Kenosha PD
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Assailant / victim Gaige Grosskreutz takes the stand in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial on Day 6 of the Government’s case-in-chief. We review Prosecutor Thomas Binger’s direct exam of Gaige and Corey Chirafisi’s cross. We also hear from Kenosha crime lab technician Heather Williams and Kenosha Police Department patrol officer Jason Kreuger. The prosecution finished the afternoon by calling livestreamer Kristin Harris.
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Hello, my friends. And welcome back to yet. Another episode of watching the Watchers live. My name is Robert griller . I am a criminal defense attorney here at the RNR law group in the always beautiful and sunny Scottsdale Arizona, where my team and I over the course of many years have represented thousands of good people facing criminal charges. And throughout our time in practice, we have seen a lot of problems with our justice system. I'm talking about misconduct involving the police. We have prosecutors behaving poorly. We've got judges, not particularly interested in a little thing called at justice. And it all starts with the politicians, the people at the top, the ones who write the rules and pass the laws that they expect you and me to follow, but sometimes have a little bit of difficulty doing so themselves. That's why we started this show called watching the Watchers so that together with your help, we can shine that big, beautiful spotlight of accountability and transparency down upon our system with the hope of finding justice. And we're grateful that you are here and with us today because we've got a lot to get into. It is Kyle Rittenhouse trial day six, and we had a lot of testimony , some really good stuff we're going to get into. We're going to start off by talking about gage gross crates , who was an alleged victim, also sort of an assailant in this trial. And he came in today. We heard a lot from him. We have a whole segment today on the direct exam, which of course is Thomas binger asking a friendly witness, gage , gross crews , a bunch of questions. And so we're going to go through that. And we're going to look at this in a light, most favorable to the prosecution to, to gauge gross Groots to the idea that Kyle Rittenhouse is guilty because it's their witness. And we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. So let's just analyze it according to those terms, see if we can give them the benefit, then we'll see what happens during the cross-examination. So in our first segment, we'll do the direct in our second segment, Cory cheer or FEC comes out and then he kind of gets into it with this witness gauge gross Groots during a cross examination , many people are saying that it's kind of the end of the case right here. We'll be analyzing it. And of course you can be the one to decide. So we're going to take a look at that. And then in the last segment, we'll kind of take a look at all the leftover witnesses that we've got that happened today in day six, we've got a number of Kenosha police officers. We have a woman from the crime lab who did some analysis on the bullets, and we had actually a live streamer, somebody who , uh, got another video admitted. So the guy who was talking about militias . So if you want to be a part of the show, the place to do that is over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. That's our home base. And you can use a forum if you want to participate. And of course this is a live stream. So if you want to ask a question, something a little bit more substantive, you can go over there. If you're a supporter, you can use that form . If you are somebody who's over on YouTube, super chats are working. They show up on the screen. They look just like that. That was from the sanity. Revolt says I just finished paralegal school. Should I get experienced first or go straight to law school? It's a good question. I wonder when that one in was that earlier today? Uh, so it's a good question. I would say, if you want to be a lawyer, you do not need experience as a paralegal, just go right through to law school. That's what your end goal is. If you think that going to paralegal school is going to give you some leg up in law school. I don't see it that way at all. If you think that's what you're going to get, kind of sounds like that. I wouldn't go that route. I just go right ahead. So that's what it looks like. And that's what happens if there's a super chat, I answer it at the end of every segment. And so you can of course support the show that way as well. If you're looking for clips of the program, because the show is long, if you're looking for a way to share the little bits and pieces that you don't get to during the actual broadcast, we have a clips channel, don't forget Robert ruler , Esq clips. You can head on over there and you can just sort of what we're doing with the Kyle Rittenhouse cases. We're breaking it up sort of by witnesses. And so if you sort of remember who was that guy, I want to watch that again, the clips channel is a good place to go for an archive as it were. And so, all right , without any further ado, let's get into it. Kyle Rittenhouse trial day six, let's take a look at the witness list. Of course, we're still in the government's case in chief Thomas binger led most of the direct examinations today. We had a lot of new witnesses come in, but we're going to spend most of the show today. And this first segment entirely on gauge gross crudes , uh , gross krauts crowds, crits. You're gonna hear it pronounced a bunch of different ways. And so you're probably gonna hear me also butcher it, but gauge gross crowds . And what happened here today is of course, this is a victim or alleged victim. Also an assailant. You can see that he's over here. He is one of the still living victims. And so this guy finally came out in court today and testified. And so we're going to hear a lot from him, a lot of clips from the direct examination, a lot of clips from Corey Chira , FEC , who did the cross examination and really challenged him and got some really damning soundbites out of him that are, I think, gonna really leave a mark in the juror's minds. So we're going to hear a lot from him in segments one and segments two. And then our final segment, we're going to wrap it up with the rest of these four individuals. So we have Heather Williams, she was with the crime lab, firearms person can hear about bullets and ammunition with her Jason Kroger . He is with the Kenosha police department. He was on patrol. And so he was actually the other guy who was working with this other officer pep over here, pet Moretti was the other officer. Jason Kroger was also in that vehicle. As they approached Kyle Rittenhouse. Then we had Kristin Harris. He's a rundown live streamer. There's a website apparently called rundown . And then we have a KPD Kenosha police officer, a detective Ben and tar , uh , Meehan and Tara Meehan . And so a lot of witnesses today, we're going to get through a lot. We're going to go quickly so that we can get to your questions and comments at the end of every segment. And so before we jump into it, we do have to make a quick note of something new that happened. Notice this when trial kicked off this morning, Kyle Rittenhouse got a haircut. Didn't he on Friday, that's the dude that he was sporting and he looks a little bit cleaned up over here on Monday. And so, you know, that type of stuff is important. His hair looks a little bit, you know , less , uh, sort of , uh, you know , wavy a little bit more organized, a little bit cleaner of a cut there. And so you're seeing more of that. Uh, as the trial unfolds, you know , people are wanting to keep their images polished and so it looks good. So, okay. Let's also take a look at the trial board. We have judge Schroeder Schrader there in the middle, nothing really changed. We're still down two jurors. One juror had a bad joke. The other one was a woman who had a medical issue. And so now no big changes over here. We also can see on our counsel list that we're really talking a lot about this one today. Count five, attempted intentional homicide gage , gross crowds was wounded not killed. And so the idea was that the speculation being that gage was going to create this theme, this narrative, that there was an active shooter and he was his hero who was running in to try to save the day. So we're going to get a lot of that testimony recall that there were two days in question really that we're talking about. We're going to hear about a couple of these days, but really we're paying most attention to August 25th, which was a Tuesday of 2020. And so gage gross groves come out, came out today and he has his first line of questioning with Thomas binger . And they're talking about all of his training as a medic, as a medical person, he's actually an EMT. And so w we actually get a long list, a long laundry list of all of his medical credentials. And it actually sounded like he was testifying almost like a police officer or somebody who maybe had done this before, went through everything, oh, you know, eight hours training this four hours training here. I want to be a doctor. I like to help people, blah, blah, blah, all of that stuff. And so it was interesting. That was a good justification for him being there in the first place. He wasn't out there protesting. He wasn't out there like Kyle Rittenhouse, who was sort of anti protesting, according to the state's narrative. He was somebody else who was out there as a medic and almost the qualified medic, right. Somebody with EMT training . And so they started this off and I thought they did a nice job at trial today, going with this narrative that gauge gross of all the witnesses that we've heard of today. He's just this nice guy who was out there, you know, wanting to serve everybody with all of his EMT training. Here's Thomas binger and gauge this morning. Do you remember approximate,
Speaker 2How long you worked as a paramedic? Let's say about a year. Were there ever times in which you had to deal with someone suffering from a gunshot wound? Yes, I have. What was that like? It's difficult. Um, gunshots can be very traumatic. I mean, traumatic in the sense of the physiology of what it can do to the body. Obviously there are numerous factors that go into it , the size of the caliber, where the person's shot, how many times , um, and when you are practicing in school, it is much different from when you actually go and put your hands on somebody who is, is bleeding. Um, there's lots of blood , um, screaming, generally speaking, there's somebody there that's frantic. So that not only are you having to focus on the patient, but you have to deal with the surrounding situation, which can be potentially, like I said, a frantic family member say if it's an accident or a self-inflicted , um, but also it can be a dangerous situation to go into because generally speaking, I mean , you shoot people to hurt them. And there's always that potential of continued on-scene violence. Um, so it can be very hectic. Um , yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah. So that's gage , who is somebody who got shot explaining what it's like to treat somebody who has been shot. So you have this interesting juxtaposition where he's talking about this in a very clinical detached way. If you are treating somebody who's a gunshot victim, while it's chaotic, it's traumatic, there may be ongoing violence. You can see that physiologically what happens to a person's body. It's very, you know, shocking. And so there's all sorts of problems that happen. And I am a clinician. I'm somebody who's very, well-trained , that's why I was there in the first place. And so he's , he's sort of talking about this in a way that he's very detached from it, but the jurors are going to see, we're not going to show it here on the show, but they're going to see a bunch of different images of his elbow blown open. Basically he goes through and he describes , uh , later in his testimony, I think we're going to get to it saying that a large portion of his bicep was just sort of blown right off of his arm. And the jurors are going to see a number of those images. Thomas binger played all of them, publish them all in front of the jurors and you see blood and guts and just core all over the place. And so now the jurors are going to connect this with , with this story, and they're gonna say, good Lord. That guy was just talking about this being a very traumatic, horrific ordeal, and suddenly, you know , he was actually living that. So I think it's going to be, you know , something that leaves a mark because they are going to see some of those gruesome photos. And remember, you know, most people in society haven't seen photos like that. I think most people, you know, aren't , uh, maybe as into, you know, true crime or whatever it is as maybe the rest of us are. And so a lot of this is going to be very shocking for the jurors. Now we're also going to be talking about something that's called drawing the sting in this line of testimony. Remember that gage grows Kreutz is somebody who, who is a victim, alleged victim. In this case, he was shot by Kyle Rittenhouse. They gotta bring him in here to testify. Rosenbaum's dead. Huber is dead. He is one of the surviving witnesses they already brought in McGinnis . The other guy is just a no-name guy, right. Unknown person. And so he's a key person. We got to hear him testify. So they had to bring him in here, but they know that, you know, he kinda has some shady stuff in his background that the defense is going to latch onto. And so there's a in law called drawing the sting. You know, if you're going to go out there and you're going to get stung, you might as well just do it when it's, when it's your time, when it's your turn, you know, it's like take the medicine and just get it over with. And so that's kind of what's happening here. You can see prosecutor binger is having conversations with him, sort of , uh , you know , drawing some of this out. Oh, tell me about the gun that you had. Oh, did you have a permit for that? Was it a concealed carry permit? Was it, was it renewed? You know, what's going on here and he's going to talk about that. Maybe I didn't, but they have to get this out right now, because if they don't, they're going to look really disingenuous when, on cross-examination Cory cheer , if you see comes out and then hammers him over the head with it. So it's sort of, you know, get it out here first so that it , it takes the sting out of it to some degree it's called drawing the stinks . So let's listen in here. This is gage gross crudes today, Rittenhouse trial day six.
Speaker 2Were you armed? I was tell us about that. I believe in the second amendment and I am for , uh , people's right. To, to carry and bear arms. Um, and that night was no different than any other day. Um, it's keys, phone, wallet, gun. Did you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon? I did . Was it in effect on August 25th, 2020? It was not had it expired. It hadn't and you had not renewed it. I have not.
Speaker 1Okay. So drawing the sting have not renewed it. I had it, but , uh , you know, oops had expired and that's getting the bad facts out there because the defense knows that. And if they don't get that out in front of the jury, now the defense is going to come out here and say, did you have an illegal gun on you? And it's going to look a lot, a lot worse than if they just say yes, we know this is what happened. Very easy explanation here. I just forgot to renew my card . That's all it was. I'm a law abiding person other than that other , uh, you know, felony. But anyways, they talked about that at the start of this entire testimony. First question I think was, do you have a criminal record? He says, yes, I do. For what it , uh , one crime, move on, get it out of the way, just take it right out. Otherwise, if you don't, the fence is going to latch onto it. So this is the first question that we get, or the first time that he describes Mr. Gross, Kreutz about observing Kyle Rittenhouse. What was the first time you saw him? Give us your impression of Rittenhouse. How did you guys cross paths this night? Lay down some foundation here. That is,
Speaker 2Were you armed? I was tell us about that. I believe in the second amendment and I am for , uh , people's right. To , to carry and bear arms. You remember the first time that you observed the defendant that evening? I do. Can you tell us about that? There was an individual , um, who I had assumed came from the demonstration resign . I assume that is because this person was coming from north traveling southbound. Um, this individual is being supported , uh , by two other individuals, kind of like that. Uh, if you were to hurt your leg and you needed somebody to, to help you , um, I had observed this , uh , individual , um, come closer to the car, saw hers as the defendant had been essentially offering medical aid. Um, and then I was the first time that I saw the defendant.
Speaker 1Okay. So Kyle Rittenhouse running around , uh , sort of, you know, no noticeable, same things that we've heard from some of the other people kind of stood out a little bit , uh , rendering medical aid. It sounds like a pretty decent young man running around doing , uh , what, what , uh, we have seen other people say he's doing, and this is very interesting. So put a pin in that, because during cross examination , we're going to hear a different version of this here . Thomas binger said, well, tell us how you noticed the defendant when you first saw him. Well, you know, he was just kind of running around , uh, you know, rendering, medical aid, whatever. We're going to hear a different caricature of a different version of reality. When we actually see some video photograph or video evidence of what gross, Gruits really thought he has some different words he uses to describe what he's seeing when he's talking about Rittenhouse and his crew. So then we start to deal with this interesting narrative that we had not heard thus far prosecutor starts to talk to gauge and says, okay, so you're kind of there, you're rendering aid, you're an EMT. You're out there, you know , ready and willing to just jump in there and support anybody who needs your help. And you're also recording some stuff. And it seems like you notice something interesting that's happening, you're recording some stuff and you get wind that the police are going to be moving the protestors around. And they're going to kind of almost drive the protestors , like a wedge down into where the militia is and the militia then is going to deal with them. So the police were almost maneuvering. Maybe people like gage and others of the protesters non-writers of course, down into the militia. And then they'll just, I guess, take care of them, deal with them. Here's what he said today. He heard in court.
Speaker 3I want you to try and put yourself back in the frame of that evening, when you heard him say something to the effect of,
Speaker 2Was it I'm working with the police, is that right? Correct. What was your reaction to that? I found it odd and , um, very noteworthy , um, previously in the nights , uh, an individual I had recorded , uh, Mr. [inaudible] , um, had described some sort of plan with the police that they were going to , um, essentially pushed demonstrators south down Sheridan, and then past the past the car source lot. And then from there, we're going to , uh, essentially retreat or back up that line. And Mr. Baldwin had explained , um, that there was some sort of understanding, some sort of plan to whatever extent it is, but that the police were going to push protestors down past the car sores . And he said that then , uh , the police told him that it was up to the militia members as they refer to themselves , uh , to deal with them,
Speaker 1Which is very interesting testimony. I mean, it's not, not really relevant to the Kyle Rittenhouse case. Kyle Rittenhouse was sort of attempt. They tried to lump him into this militia bucket. This caricature of that. We already heard that during the testimony where they were being, or was trying to get in the video evidence of the person was saying militia, militia, militia in the audio, in the background of the, of the video. And we can see how that's sort of weaving itself into the theme of the trial. We hear it again from gage . Well, that's kind of the militia is going to deal with them. And that this whole thing was an orchestrated, almost a battle like the police were going to be maneuvering the troops to maneuver the protesters , like a scene out of Braveheart or something like that. And, you know, again, it doesn't really go to the heart of the matter. Did Kyle Rittenhouse act out of self-defense when he shot you gage ? Well, we're going to get to that, but you can see how the framing of the narrative continues, militia organized kind of an us versus them thing. And again, it's, it's maybe even so nefarious that the police are involved in this so interesting testimony, then he goes down and we really start to break down the actual event where gage is running down or run , or, you know , chasing, we're going to see how much they battle over this word, but chasing Kyle Rittenhouse or running northbound down the street, saying that more people are joining in whether it's a mob or a crowd or whatever, they're, you know , really fighting over semantics here. Uh , not in this clip further on the show, but they fight over this. But this is where Thomas binger is now asking him these, these questions and saying, Hey, can you explain to us, how did this all go down again? This is direct examination. Thomas binger in the Rittenhouse trial today
Speaker 2After I had turned around and started running in the same direction as the defendant, again, this, this wouldn't say that there was more people joining, but more people were then pointing out the defendant saying that he had just shot somebody , uh, that he's trying to get away, get him things of that nature. And then, so again, further inferencing from the things I had heard and experienced witnessed earlier in the night, I thought that the defendant was , um, an active shooter. And like I had mentioned earlier, anytime you add a firearm to the equation, or like I said, that the stakes are so much higher , um, for somebody potentially being seriously injured , um, or being, being killed.
Speaker 1Can we please? Okay. So a couple things on this, the active shooter theme finally comes up out of the woodwork. We've been speculating that that was going to be where this goes. He's been sort of hinting at that. There it is. I was a medic. I was an EMT. I was there, there was a bunch of chaos that happened. I heard gunshots. I thought there was an active shooter running away from me. So I got my gun and started to chase after him because I was, I guess, going to , uh , heal him with bullets or something, right. Stop an active shooter or stop the people or provide medical care medical aid to the people who need it. So, you know, going to be , uh , an actual hero and lays all of that out. One by one Thomas binger now is asking him about the gun and about drawing the gun and about whether he was, you know, running. If he's an EMT providing medical aid, why is he drawing a gun? Why does he have a gun that's not registered , uh , or , or not licensed because it expired. It was but expired or , or his license expired. Why is he, what what's happening there? Why does he have a gun? If he's an EMT there at a scene, again, drawing the stink because the defense is going to ask him about this. So they have to make sure that they get this cleared up during the direct exam. Here is Thomas binger again,
Speaker 3Before this moment, had you drawn your firearm?
Speaker 2No.
Speaker 3Where was it?
Speaker 2Um, like I'd mentioned at the beginning. I keep my pistol holstered and the small of my back.
Speaker 3But don't you have it in your hand at this point?
Speaker 2I can't see. Uh , okay. Can't see. From this video,
Speaker 3Did there come a time when you were running that you did pull your gun out? Yes. Why ?
Speaker 2Again, in the moment , uh, I, I thought that the defendant was an active shooter having been not too far behind. Like you mentioned him just about to come into the frame here. Um, I had , uh, heard several more gunshots , um, and again, making inferences, the defendant was the only one with a large caliber rifle, which , um , I'd seen an individual , um, jump over to the defendant and then the defendant.
Speaker 1Okay. So it actually, the clip actually cut out right there. We're going to pick it right back up, but can you, did you hear what he said? Right. He's the only person that has of , uh , you know , rifle, style firearm, or however he phrased it, which obviously was not true. We heard from many other , uh , witnesses that a lot of people had, you know, firearms yeah . Of all different varieties. And so we saw that, oh, hang on a second. We've got some loser in the chat. I got to deal with, take care of this person here. All right . There we go. So , uh, so he's talking about right. Drawing a firearm and whether or not, well, let , let's pick up the clip . So the , the clip actually cut out in the middle of this testimony. And so I picked it back up. Let's, let's start it back up right here.
Speaker 2Um, these a skateboard to hit the defendant , um, or hold the defendant either way, the individual hadn't made contact with the defendant, with his skateboard. And then from there I had another shot. And then as you can see in this still individual. Oh yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1Okay. So he hears a number of different shots. One second, one other second here. Cut some knuckleheads in the channel. Don't we? All right . So what we heard from gage , all right . I don't know what's going on in the chat, so I'll deal with that in a minute. But so we heard from gage . Gage is now somebody who has multiple , uh, observations about gunshots going off. He thinks it's an active shooter. He is now racing in there to go be a hero, helping away. Let's pick this up. Thomas binger is now diving in a little bit further. You're pulling your gun out before the shots
Speaker 3Specifically where you intending when you pulled your gun out, were you intending to use
Speaker 2If I had to? Um, I , I didn't.
Speaker 1All right . One second. Making a quick change on the chats. All right. All right. So I've made a quick change. Let's go back to gauge ,
Speaker 2Draw my firearm with a express intent of, of using it, but also being ready if I had to use it.
Speaker 1Okay. Had a firearm wasn't licensed, but you know, I'm a medic and it's really dangerous out there. And so if you need to have a firearm to protect yourself gauge , isn't it reasonable that Kyle Rittenhouse might isn't it reasonable that other people might. So it's interesting, you know, you sort of have this hypocritical double standard that exists. Thomas binger comes out and says Rittenhouse with his firearm was a reckless lunatic running around the streets of Kenosha. But over here we could gauge gross Kreutz and a firearm is , is pretty much okay for him. Now. It's not even that big of a deal. So we have more testimony from gay , uh , gage a lot more talk about the right hand on the Glock pistol, where does it actually kind of come down and make a connection? So we know that gage is running down the street. He thinks Kyle Rittenhouse is an active shooter. He's going to go provide some, some help over there. And he doesn't from bigger his own question. He doesn't have his gun, his hand on the gun immediately. But then at some time later down the line, he does, right. He actually, we can see it cause he's holding the gun in a lot of the photographs. So when specifically does the gun go on the hand, and this is pretty important because remember what we've talked about previously with self-defense, you know, self-defense exists when an objectively reasonable person believes that they're in danger of losing their lives or imminent physical injury or something to that effect, but not if you are provoking it. And so we're going to hear in this direct exam, sort of this, this idea that maybe they had already disengaged and maybe Kyle Rittenhouse re-engaged into the conflict, because we're gonna hear from that in a minute, basically saying that that Rittenhouse already tried to shoot him. And that's why he had to take his gun out because he was already on the defensive. It's going to , it's going to make a lot more sense here in a minute, but let's play this next clip
Speaker 3Again . Did you witness him fire a shot into Mr. Hubris chest? I did. So when you come upon the defendant at this point, do you recall what you were holding in your hands? I do. What, what were you holding
Speaker 2My right hand? I had my Glock pistol in my left hand. I had my cell phone.
Speaker 3What was going through your mind at this particular moment?
Speaker 2I was going to die.
Speaker 3Let's continue the video for just a second, please.
Speaker 1Okay. So I was going to die right in. You probably understand that Kyle Rittenhouse is sitting there with a, an assault, not assault rifle. Somebody yelled at me for that, but a, a rifle that looks like Kyle written houses that is obviously warm. It has just been used a couple of times. And so certainly you can understand his , uh , concerns about that. So now what we get is a play-by-play breakdown. This is where he, he says something draws an immediate objection. When I was listening to this earlier in my office, as soon as that question, or as soon as he said this, I was like, objection, I yelled it right out. And of course, Mark Richards or Corey , I forget who it was. They got it as well. And the judge made him rephrase this, but you can see where this is going, using language that is provocative, really going to be trying to, you know, rile up the jurors and to use his language in a, in a provocative way. Here is gage yet. Again, talking about murdering Huber were on trial for that, that has not been proven yet. You can't use that word. Here is gage .
Speaker 2Anthony Huber was shot. Um, you can see in the video, I'm not too far behind him. Um, and the defendant had after murdering Anthony Huber,
Speaker 4The objection is sustained whether , uh, the death of Anthony Uber was caused by a murder or not is for you jurors to decide and not for the witness. So please keep that in mind that people, when they're in the court and they're testifying , uh, they can be affected by their emotions sometimes by their jobs. And , uh, and they will, for someone who comes into a physician, for example, with a gunshot one , maybe identified as a victim. And that's the language that they speak in the hospital, because the person comes in with a gunshot wound here in the court where the issue is yet to be determined, whether someone's a victim or not. And it's to be based on the evidence presented in court. And it's a decision to be made by you jurors, not by a witness, not by the judge, not by the prosecutor or the defense attorney. So , uh, I'm gonna ask you to strike the comment, which was this witnesses view of the subject and , uh, because it carries no weight it's for you folks to decide any question about that. Okay, thanks. Go ahead.
Speaker 1Okay. So the judge was very nice about that and you could , you know , look gage knew what he was doing there that well, yes, yes, Mr. Prosecutor, that's why Kyle Rittenhouse murdered Huber. He knew what he was doing, but the judge says, well, you know, people can get a little bit, you know , you know, agitated from time to time, people can get animated. Sometimes we use words we don't mean, and then gave the judge the jury a nice explanation. Well, we haven't determined whether Kyle Rittenhouse murdered Huber yet. That's why we're here. So you can't jump to conclusions like he did there. And this is finally sort of this three part trifecta that really closes up all of the direct testimony. Oftentimes during direct, you sort of want to leave the jury with a bang , right? I mean, it kind of in this case, literally, but something that , that leaves them hanging at the edge of their seats. You know, when you watch, you know, a nice series on Netflix or HBO and it ends, it goes, and that's why I met with Carla and they go, Carla, zooms out and you go, oh, Carla . I remember her from that one scene. I can't believe she did that thing with that guy. That one time and everybody, oh, I can't wait to watch the next episode. Kind of something like that. You want to make sure that the jury really gets, you know, hit with something impactful. And so they orchestrated this thing pretty good. There's this three part trifecta that we're going to go through here. This is gage gross. Gruits he's talking about Kyle Rittenhouse and let's break this down, right? Step-by-step he is racing to stop this active shooter. Kyle Rittenhouse is just shot. Two people. Rosenbaum is , is dead. We've got Huber is down, probably dead. And we now have gates gross. Kreutz running up to save the date while he gets there. And Kyle Rittenhouse moves his gun right in front of him. And he is going to detail for us. What happens at that exact moment? When those two gentlemen, everything in the universe just stops and their eyeballs connect gage grows . Cruz is able to look down at Kyle Rittenhouse his gun and see exactly what he does on this thing. And it's a powerful moment in the trial. The jury's going to hear this. Let's break it down here is gage today.
Speaker 3Continue the video, please.
Speaker 1Right there. That was the shooting. I blacked it out.
Speaker 3The defendant. Do anything with his gun after you put your hands up,
Speaker 2Did
Speaker 3What did you see him do?
Speaker 2Um, it's a , uh, an action that's , uh , typically referred to as a wracking , um, uh, a firearm. Um, so after the defendant had pointed his rifle at me and put my hands up and then the defendant , um, like I said, did this motion, what's called a re racking . And that's essentially where you take the , the, the slide , uh, which Ana air 15, like that would be on the top. And he pulled back and pull back. And what that does is depending on if there was already a RD or a bullet or around in the chamber, which would mean it would be ready to fire as you can put in a magazine , uh, which where the bullets are held and the firearm will be able to fire. But as soon as you then pull the slide back, like on a pistol or on an air 15 on the top, that, that,
Speaker 1Okay. So he starts going off. We're going to pick it back up, but I just want to make a quick moment, just to point out what happened here. He is there. He says, when you looked at Kyle Rittenhouse, before he shot you, did you see him do anything? He says, yes, I did. I watched him reload the gun, he rewrapped the gun. And he's basically goes on to explain, you know, a gun is not going to work unless you have a , you know , ammunition in their bullets. And if there's something wrong with the Jack , the cart eject the shell where he racked the whole gun, and then it's going to work again. So he starts, you know , kind of spiraling off into that. And then we jump into the next question. So Tom is being, her says, whoa, wait a minute. You're telling me that you went to go and stop this. And not only did he shoot you on a whim, but Kyle Rittenhouse actually reloaded. It that's ma that's like adding insult to injury. You got shot. But he was like, it's like enjoying it, watching you, making eye contact going here comes another one. And you raised your hands. Didn't you gauge according to Thomas binger. And so that means that he pulled the trigger when your hands were in the air. Didn't he today in court. Let's listen.
Speaker 2So after you raised your hands like this, you saw the defendant rerock the weapon, correct? What did you think was going to happen in my experiences and in my inference, in that moment for the defendant had pointed his weapon at me. And I put my hands in there, re racking the weapon in my mind meant that the defendant pulled the trigger while my hands were in the air. But the gun didn't fire. Ooh . So then by racking , the weapon, I inferred that the defendant wasn't accepting my surrender. Did you feel that he was going to point the gun and shoot at you again? Yes. What did you do then? So after the defendant had redirect his weapon with the rifle still aimed at me. And that moment, I felt that I had to do something to try and prevent myself from being, being killed or being shot or killed.
Speaker 1All right. So we got to break that down for a minute. So Kyle Rittenhouse, again, we have these two people coming together, locking eyes. Gage says he sees Rittenhouse reload. The gun. Why though? Why does he have to re the gun? Rewrap it, as he says, he says going through his mind instinctually it's because Rittenhouse has already tried to shoot him. He , he moves the gun fires, doesn't fire, something's wrong, Rerock's it? So that he can fire again, even though now what we see is gauged with his hands up. So gauge now has to act out of self-defense because Kyle Rittenhouse, an active shooter, according to him was about to kill him. And so he has no choice at this point, but to shoot him, but to take his gun. Now, gage is acting out of self-defense. Now he is having to survive this, this assault or this attacker in Rittenhouse. So he has no choice. He sees the rerock in real time. He says, oh, he's coming around for another shot. So now I have to start taking my gun and respond back to protect myself. And then they leave it at this. I was never trying to kill him. I was only trying to preserve my own life. That's why I went after written house. That's why I put my hand on the gun and had to maneuver it towards his direction here. They finished this direct exam today in court.
Speaker 2Um, and so I decided that the best course of action would to be the closest distance between the defendant denied. And then , um, you know, from there, I , I, I don't know. I mean, it meant trying with it . Anthony had just tried wrestling the gun, detaining the defendants. I , I, I, I don't know. Uh , cause I never had an opportunity. Um, I do know though, I was never trying to kill the defendant. That was never, never something that I was trying to do in that moment. I was trying to preserve my own life, but doing so while also taking the life of another is not something that I'm capable or comfortable in doing that goes against almost a lifelong ethical code that I've lived by. And in regards to, in regards to medicine, can we back the video up 10 seconds please?
Speaker 1All right. So they just go through it again and again, there's Kyle. All right . So they go through it a little bit more, you know, they kind of beat that horse into the ground some more, but gage grows Kreutz if you look at everything in a light, most favorable to him, right? This is the government's case, it's their direct exam. Let's just take a look at it. Give them the benefit of the doubt for a quick second. If gage gross , Cruz is true and everything is looked at in a light, most favorable to the prosecution. He's an EMT person. He's somebody who who's out there to provide medical treatment. Somebody with actual credentials, actual qualifications, somebody who used to be a licensed firearm owner. Okay. It expired big deal, but he was somebody who was previously licensed and he was out there trying to stop an active shooter, you know , and if that is a true situation and he does in fact stop an active shooter, that guy's a hero all day. He's on CNN, he's on Fox news. He gets the metal of whatever because he saved lives by stopping an active shooter. So that's what he thinks he thinks is going on. We go, we go there and he is now collapsing upon this active shooter who gets the better of him by having his firearm pointed directly at him. After using it on a couple other people, gage grows . Cruz is thinking, oh my goodness, this isn't, this is the end for me. I'm over, I'm done. He puts his hand up. This might be the end of it. He says, but it's not because Kyle Rittenhouse re instigates the entire ordeal. He provokes get a further development of this altercation. He rewrites the gun re racking . The gun is a hint to gauge. This is a trigger to gauge. He's going to shoot me again. He already tried to shoot me one time, but for whatever reason, the firearm malfunction and Ms . Jan . And so he couldn't do it. He's re racking because he's going to try again in order to stop him from shooting me and this time having it work, I have to respond. I have to take my weapon and execute to save my own life. Rittenhouse then shot. And that's the end of that story. And if you're a juror and you look at everything in a light, most favorable, the gross Kreutz and you say, that's, you know, so that's a , that's a believable rub . There seems like a nice guy. Credible guy only wants to prevent people from getting hurt. What do you think? We're going to take your questions from watching the watchers.locals.com . And then we're going to jump into the cross-examination with Corey cheerer FEC . And we're going to see if there's a little bit of a different story here to this whole gage gross crudes . So let's see what you have to say for my friends@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com also saw some super chats. Come in. Husker. Mike is confirming for us. The bots are out, got a 14 day ban on Facebook for saying the prosecution better have more. Kyle looks 100% innocent. Keep up the great work, Rob. Well, thanks Husker Mike it's. It's everywhere. They're out in hordes today. And we're seeing that, of course, in our YouTube chat. We've got some butts bugging everybody over there. All right. We're waiting for the , uh , the questions to load up over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com . Let's see what we have here. Backing up on some of these. I see a lot of questions coming in. Love it. All right . So first one in the house is from Sharon. Courtney says I haven't been getting alerts or notifications for awhile . Today's the first I've had a message that your show is on. Hm . Yeah, it probably has to do with maybe the program changed there. Sharon, we're moving a bunch of stuff around. I know it's a , I know it's very frustrating. Let's see. Uh , Davis is here, says this examination was so emotionally manipulative. How is it relevant to gauge was one of 10 people to pass the EMT test? How has any of that testimony relevant? I don't think Kyle was thinking about gross Kreutz EMT status. I'm pretty sure he's thinking, holy crap, this guy's running at me with a loaded gun. Weird how gage filmed Kyle admitting that he was turning himself in and that he admitted seeing Huber T chase Kyle yet somehow concluded that Kyle was the active shooter. What a mess. Yeah, it was. And he started to use some language about Kyle getting, you know , kind of his head kicked in, or at least jumped on during his exam and you're going well, it sounds like a lot of people were attacking him. We're going to see how badly this goes for the prosecution. When we get to the cross-examination , uh, English, Dave says, regardless of the evidence and the facts, what chance do you believe Kyle will or won't be found guilty? Do you trust it will be a fair trial and a fair verdict. Yeah, I think, I mean, I, I hope so. You know , I certainly hope so. I think that the evidence is abundantly clear that he is innocent of any of the charges as far as I can tell now, look, I mean, if you want to be really, really granular, technically, is he in violation of the curfew charge? Yes. Technically they didn't charge anybody else with that, but you know , if you wanted to split hairs about that, I think you could, but I certainly don't think that he is guilty of intentional murder or reckless murder or any of those homicide charges at all. And I don't think a jury is going to find him guilty of that. If I had to put a percentage on it, I'd say I'm yesterday. Maybe I was, you know, 60, 70% confident after today. And there's gauges done. I'd say it's probably a 90%. If I could. You're not supposed to say that you're not supposed to do that. You should never give percentages in law because then people hear that that's all they hear. Oh, well you said 90% Rob , but it's looking pretty good folks. I mean, if there , what we saw today was pretty bad and we'll see how it , uh , it continues to unfold here in the next segment. Thunder seven says, I just want to say how refreshing and positive it is to have a trial with the judge who actually believes in the law and not a woke lefty activist . Judge may be a bit cooky , but he's on the side of justice. And I appreciate that. That's a fair assessment there. That was from thunder seven. Yeah, a little bit kooky. I think that's a good, a good assessment also says , uh , Dan didn't realize you started early. Glad I checked. Well, daylight savings time. You know, we didn't move in Arizona. Anyway, we should. Uh , should we expect murder charges for the defense for murder ? Engage in binger maybe. Yeah. We're going to see that maybe, or at least maybe like a , like a domestic abuse type of thing. The court is the house and they got kind of abused. LA medic says , or LA medics as gage has a history of being a paramedic, but did not have a current license. He stated that he worked in a non-emergency ambulance, not 9 1, 1. I questioned when he had a situation that he , I questioned when he had a situation, he treated a gunshot. One of the first in continuous trainings that are given are seen safety and blood and body substances isolation for over a year of schooling and training. Those who were , those are two things that are drilled into you as the first two things in every scene. A medic cannot help anyone if they are injured, his actions are in direct conflict of that training. The only medic that have a firearm and active shooter training are SWAT medics that have both medics certification have gone through a police academy. Yeah. That's from LA medic. Yeah. I think that , um , I think that he, you know, he , he was throwing around a lot of the qualifications, but wasn't all that highly qualified. It was just a convenient little, you know, kind of , uh , kind of excuse LA medic says the drone footage is new to the prosecution and my case to my understanding, they said that they are attempting to have the footage analyzed and blown up. Is there any time limit for new evidence to be added to the record? This is 18 months later. How could this not have come our way before any chance that this is a prosecution play in their crappy case? Yeah. So there are all sorts of discovery rules that exist. I don't know exactly what they are in , um, in Wisconsin, but certainly the day of trial is generally too late to, you know, release new disclosures to just to come out and say, oh, we found the murder knife. You know, the day of trial. Well that's, oh, you should've found it a long time before that because the defense needs their time to go and investigate all of the claims. You can't just bring in a new one . We got a brand new witness here today. Who's going to prove our case and incriminate the defense to the moon. Okay. Well the defense needs to prepare their defense. And so you don't get to just , you know, it's not a surprise party day in court. So the same thing happens when we're talking about new evidence. Now this drone footage, you know, if it is something that is, you know, Modicon moderately relevant to some stuff we've already talked about and the defense doesn't object to it. If the defense says, yeah, no problem bring it in. We don't care. Then that may not be a big deal. You can just come right in, even though it may be in technical violation of some of the rules. I saw Beth Cottington in here with a monster Superchat , shout out to Beth Cottington. Who's back with us, says what a fantastic monthly meeting on Saturday, Robert so glad I was able to make it finally getting back to normal. Relatively love you all. Thanks for all that you do. I forgot to mention that at the start of the show. Yeah. At our watching the watchers.locals.com monthly meetup, we met for like three hours and it was a , it was a blast out a ton of fun. Beth Cottington was there all bundled up, snuggled up over there, warm as can be. And it's a lot of fun to put names, to faces and see everybody and see what they're doing. And Beth gave us a very nice update about kind of what's going on in her life. And so all of our love goes out to Beth and everybody else who was able to join us. We had probably about 40, 50, maybe up to 60 people at one time, all on zoom. And we got to see where everybody was from. And some people are outside. Some people are, you know, kind of in their , uh, uh, you know, big rigs driving all over the country. It's cool. It's fun to see where people come from. And it's a , it's a good community that we're building over there. So come check us out. Monster one says I watched most of the day on Nick's channel. Oh, shout out to Nick. By the way I was on his channel yesterday, very late. If you want to watch my brain malfunction a few times, go check out my interview with Nick last night. It was late. I'm normally in bed by like 9, 9 30. But , uh, well we had fun, man. We streamed to like for like almost almost two and a half hours, I think had a lot of fun. I'm going to invite him onto our channel, love what he's doing, man. He is up to speed on this case. So he says, I watched most of it over there. Like when gage says it was his understanding that Kyle wasn't experienced in first aid, how could he possibly know that he doesn't, he didn't know Kyle and had very little interaction with him. So how could he give accurate testimony? He couldn't, is this a strategy on the defense part? Is the prosecution killing their own case so bad that the defense doesn't need to object? Or is that negligence on the defense? You know, I just think it's a stylistic thing. They're just kind of giving them a lot of leeway, a lot of rope to say whatever you want, you know , they don't necessarily need to object to things unless it's really objection worthy. You know, the thing about the other problem with defense with objections sometimes is that jurors can think that you're trying to hide things from them. You know, if you're objecting at every, every question it's like, can you just let him talk? We want to hear what he has to say, stop objecting and ruining the flow. And so if you get objection happy, you know, it can really almost be as annoying as kind of not objecting to improper question . So it's a stylistic thing. I don't think it would be negligent. You know, of course, if they don't win, then there's going to be a lot of conversations about that. Sniper's here says gross arm completely destroys his own testimony when he says he would never shoot anyone. If that is the case, why is he involving himself in an active shooter situation? If he wasn't willing to use lethal force to stop the active threat, it's a good point there. That was from sniper. Let's jump back over to , uh, to YouTube and see what we've got. Eddie Oliver said, Rob, is it too soon to pass a law, establishing a holiday for gage gross crowds. The guy's a hero also you'd beat ricotta in a knife fight. Well, that's very nice of you to say that. Yeah . I mean, hopefully we never have to test that out. Nick seems scrappy as hell. You know, don't don't uh , don't don't don't judge him. Uh don't don't judge that, that battle too quickly, but it's good to see you. Eddie Eddie was over there with us a lot yesterday as well. And that was from Husker. Mike Iceman said large caliber that was said several times and caliber speaks directly to the bullet diameter, the 22 caliber bullet smaller than what's in his Glock. Those are great questions. Andrew says, I don't think I've ever seen a da put on self forever sleep watch on television live until today. We're going to watch some of that. We have an actual face Palm in our next segment. And then Peter says directed verdict, prosecutorial misconduct, you know, the directed verdict conversation. Nick and I talked a lot about that yesterday. And , uh , I was like a 0% on that. But now even after today might be closer to , uh , something that may be actually possible happen happening. The Antica says, oh, look, another corporate media narrative getting smashed. How many are we at the recent couple of years? Now, a lot of these, did you see Ana Kasparian , uh, Nate, the lawyer posted this on his Twitter timeline. He said that , uh , Anna CAS Berrien was somebody who over at the young Turks and she has been promoting this brought weapons across state lines, hoax for, you know, a year now. And , uh, kind of having to eat her words a little bit over there. We've got a geo Mancy says, Hey Rob, do you need a mod to band these spammers in the chat? Where can I sign up? I think we do. Now. I think we're sort of, at that point, we do geo Mancy may reach out to you about that. LA medic says also as a paramedic, you have to be under the umbrella of an MD, a medical director to do any other medical treatment other than basic care, what a bystander would do. If I was to treat someone while not under that, I would have no liability coverage under the law. I've got some good medical knowledge coming in here from LA medic de Del SPI says thoughts on gage and his tweeting about the trial and that being used as evidence against him, not really against him, but to show that he's commenting on the active case. So I saw some of that briefly detail SPI and shout out to DDL SPI who was with us over on our locals meetup . We, we did see that, right. I think there was indication that gage was actually commenting on, I think Jack [inaudible] Twitter account. And I think he was some, somebody else was commenting on it, but he's actually on Twitter, allegedly. It is actually gauged gross crew at crates. And he was posting, I think back on November 1st, like recently, like as this trial is warming up. And so, you know, I don't think anything there is going to be stuff that's going to , you know , shatter the case or be earth shattering or anything like that. But I do think that, you know, he is going to be impeached and embarrassed pretty badly. I think here soon, we're going to go into the next segment talking about cross-examination . But what we're going to see is that Cory cheerer , FISA, at least on one occasion, asked to make question about somebody else who's going to come in and testify soon. And so if gross Kreutz , his answer is not matching to what this other person who comes in and testifies. It's going to look like he is massively lacking in credibility. So any of those tweets or any of those other external statements, if you can bring those back into court, if he, if he comes out here and says, yeah, I did say that I wanted to make sure that I emptied an entire clip into Rittenhouse. Yeah. Obviously that's going to be problematic. Don't expect him to say anything like that, but yeah, if he's sort of, you know, opening the door to, to , to any, I , you could recall him as a witness, you could ask him about those things. I think the judge would , would , would entertain that the judge has already sort of scolded the media previously. And so if stuff is, you know , bubbling up in the middle of the trial, I don't think, I don't know. I think the judge very well may call him back in and ask or allow questions to be asked about those things. Whether they're consequential those a whole nother matter. We've got David Orndorff says, isn't the discussion of whether or not gross. Cruz thought his life was in danger, completely irrelevant. Both him and Kyle can think their lives are in danger and have a reasonable argument for self-defense. Yeah, I, so it's relevant for you . It's sort of a battle of the self-defense is right now. And he's, he's trying to reclaim that with this whole narrative that I was the person who was actually doing the good thing. Kyle Rittenhouse was the bad guy, Rittenhouse , the good guy, you were the bad guy. So you've got these competing self-defense claims and you know, it's going to be up to the jury to decide which one wins. And a lot of this is going to come down to credibility and the other facts of the case, which we're going to get into. Cause Corey cheer , FEC really kind of, you know, beats up this , um, this heroic medic EMT going in to save a bunch of lives that all sort of changes pretty rapidly. Good to see you, David. Good question. A couple others before we jump back into it , uh, PWS MKZ says gage got caught up in his lies plus destroys his own lawsuits. Yeah, he's uh, he had a pretty bad day today. We're going to talk about those lawsuits news. Now Wyoming says, how much does it matter that the victim thought he was stopping someone who was involved in an active shooter versus Rittenhouse his perception that he was acting in self-defense and there was a person with a gun approaching him. So it, it, it matters. It matters to the degree that you have to decide whether Kyle Rittenhouse himself was justified. Remember that gauge gross . Cruz is not on trial here. So we're not asking about whether gauge gross . Cruz is entitled to the protection of self-defense. You can , you can, you can play around with that , uh, you know, mechanically in your brain. You can, you could compare and contrast, you can say, okay, these two people, they, they rammed into each other in the middle of a hypothetical in the middle of, you know, bumps , Seville wherever. And it is now a nice intellectual conversation about who really has self-defense in a situation like that. But what we have here legally for the facts of this case, Kyle Rittenhouse has been charged with self with intentional homicide. So self-defense needs to be proven for him. And if he, if he can invoke that, then he's immune from criminal liability as to gage gross crudes . So, so I, I know that it's a lot of people want to make this an either or thing. Well, either, you know, either he had self-defense or he had self-defense. What we're talking about is in context of Kyle Rittenhouse, being charged, he has to invoke that affirmatively and communicate that he's entitled to that privilege. And if he is then the criminal liability as to gross Kreutz evaporates. So I know that's not really a, a, a satisfactory answer because you want to know how the two relate to one another. But if gross Kreutz was being charged with a crime, then the self-defense doctrine would apply to him, right? It's not, you , you can't have both people with self-defense right. One person is sort of the aggressor as to the other person. So some, one person is going to get charged and then one person's going to invoke self-defense so it can get very complicated. You can dive into, you know , sort of imperfect self-defense and all these mistakes of facts and , uh, you know, different intent. And it can get very complicated, but , uh , by, and, you know, broad strokes, Rittenhouse has the defense privilege. We have to make sure that it applies to him. Vis-a-vis the other victims who are a part of the case. Good question news. Now that's some heavy legal stuff. Also says I have my CCW permit, even though I live in a state, I don't need it. I keep it current so I can travel. The 42 states honor my CCW. I can't buy the excuse of it just expired. I forgot it. He knowingly withheld from police and his lawsuit that he was carrying a gun illegally, no matter how much he may try to say it, wasn't purposeful. He withheld very important information and he absolutely did. And we're going to get into a lot of that here in the next segment. And it may be a good time to jump into that. So let's go ahead and do that because a lot of the questions are sort of relevant to the cross examination by Corey cure FEC it's Kyle Rittenhouse trial day six, we just finished talking about the gage gross Kreutz direct examination. That's where the government is asking the questions. It's sort of a friendly witness. Now we're picking back up with the cross examination . So now Thomas binger here has finished his cross exam, his direct examination of gage gross Groots . And we're going to listen in as he is cross-examined by defense attorney Corey [inaudible] , Corey cheer , PC of course, representing Kyle Rittenhouse. And he started off the cross examination by really digging in to gauge about these lawsuits, which was the first time I heard about these bad boys, but apparently he's got a couple of them, maybe one, maybe two. I'm not sure, so sure of it. Regardless, at least one is asking for 10 million bucks. So he says that he was injured as a result of this entire ordeal in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and he's entitled to compensation. And so this is Corey asking him a little bit about that, how you filed a notice of claims . Got your name on it. You want to tell us a little bit more about that? They're gage Cory cheer feces right here in court.
Speaker 5That was correct. Okay. And this is so to be fair , uh , this is your testimony today and how this case turns out has that has an impact on your ability to try to collect your 10 million, right? That's correct. So if he's convicted, Mr. Rittenhouse is convicted. Your chance of getting 10 million bucks is better, right? I'm not entirely sure how that plays out. I haven't had any conversations with your lawyer about that conversations with this lawyer. Okay. Fair enough. Um, you you're aware that if Mr. Rittenhouse is convicted, your chances of getting the $10 million are better I'm to object, your honor, this has been asked and answered . He's got a basis to answer that judge sustained on the first ground . I would move 63. Objection, receipt .
Speaker 1Alright . So submitting the document, submitting the actual lawsuit, $10 million also goes through your lawyers in the courtroom to right . And she was here this morning and she's right back there. All right. And she filed civil claims and we're going to get into a lot more of this when we get into the last segment of the show today, because we hear from the detective and he tells us a lot about the conversations with gage and his lawyer, and has it excuse me, as it pertains to , uh , regaining access to the cell phone and, you know, interviews and things like that. So we now are going to jump into another question from Corey cheer , FEC saying yet again that your $10 million, you know, that's kind of a big payday , it's kind of contingent upon what happens here in this courtroom. Might that be a conflict of interest or bias your testimony here he is,
Speaker 5Right ? Correct. Okay, Natalie , go ahead. You can go home and that's you right? Speaking. Yeah , that is correct. You say you can go home. You stupid, right ? Correct. Okay .
Speaker 1Okay. So yeah, that was another clip. So sort of reverting this back. Now we see that gauge is portraying a different aura about himself during his direct examination. He was just this EMT. He was such a nice guy who was running around the streets of Kenosha, you know , trying to help people. And he wanted to stop an active shooter. But then when the defense comes out and plays a video and you just heard that their content warning little late on that one, sorry. He says , uh , Mr. Gross, Cruz , it sounds like you were out there running around filming people, calling them f-ing Stooges. Was that you? Yes, it was. Oh, so you weren't out there actually, you know, trying to maybe help Kyle Rittenhouse, somebody who was running around being an EMT style person, you weren't supporting him. You were kind of needling him to some degree calling him an effing stooge. Oh, so that's a little bit of a different version of this. Here is Corey CIF , VC digging in on that again?
Speaker 5No, not it's your girl. You can go home state and that's you right? Speaking. Yeah . That is correct. You say you can go home. You stupid, right ? Correct . Okay . He didn't do anything to unity . No, you didn't do it . You didn't see him threaten anyone, did you? No, I did not. You didn't see him act aggressive towards anyone did you? No, I did not. In fact again , whether you agree that he's a medic or not , he's asking people if they need help, that is correct. Okay .
Speaker 1Kyle didn't do anything at all. He just didn't like how he looked or how he was running around. He didn't like the fact that he was, you know, playing EMT. And so he S you know, instigating with them. Corey cheer feces starts back up. It says, let's go back out. Now, if you are somebody who thinks that there was an active shooter, how do you rectify the fact that Kyle Rittenhouse, when you came upon him on the street that night told you a bunch of stuff said that he was going to be actually going to the police. And he was in fact running that direction. How do you justify that? Here's what gage gross. Crude said today in court,
Speaker 5Probably watching videos, probably seen all this. I'm asking you to put yourself back there at that time. Okay. You know, shots are fired, right? Correct. Okay. And the only information that you have is Mr. Written, how was saying, according to you, he pulled the gun on me first, right? Correct. And based on that, you believe there's an active shooter, not solely on that, but yes. You don't have any information. Correct? I had minimal information. And in fact, what he says to you was I'm going to the police, correct? That is correct. And he's running toward the police. Isn't that is correct. Okay. So what you can tell me if this is right. You have no idea what happened with Mr. Rosenbaum apart from no , I just know on that day, correct. Okay . And he tells you he's running and he tells you on whatever he tells you, I'm going to the police or what you think is , um , he pulled the gun first and he's running away from you, right. He's running north on Sheridan road. Correct. And he's running away from where you're standing true.
Speaker 1Yes. He's running away. So what he's trying to do here is establish different in Disha. So let let's, let's sort of, let's remove gage gross. Kreutz from the entire situation, let's say that we have just a situation in general, where you have one person, a hypothetical not related to Kenosha at all. One person is running down the street. The only thing we know about this person has a firearm has a weapon around their chest. Also is somebody that says I'm going towards the police. And it looks like they're running towards the police. We heard gunshots. Didn't see it. Any of that really specifically saw somebody running he's communicated to them. I didn't shoot anybody or says something like that. I, you know, I , uh, you know, there was a shooting, but I'm going to the police. That's all, you know. And so what do you do about what , what do you, what do you do a reasonable person, right? That's all you know about this person. You see what he looks like. Do you think that, that person's an active shooter? Do you pull out your firearm to go and chase them down and choose and to , you know, maybe, maybe shoot them just based on those facts alone. Maybe, maybe you do, maybe you don't, this guy certainly did. But on that basis alone, does that justify you to use deadly force against that person in and of itself based off those facts? Of course not. Right. Because if you're not in danger, you're not in harm. It's all speculative. As he admits right here, it's minimal information. He doesn't know much at all. He doesn't know anything about happening with the prior shootings. They were gunshots that were going off all night long, first gunshot in the entire sequence, never even came from Rittenhouse. It came from two other people who were nearby. There were shootings taking place at the, it was , it was a war zone as officer pep told us yesterday. So what we see here is this , this, this conversation about, he just doesn't know enough to go and follow Rittenhouse and chase him with a gun. And then he shows him that before he even got to Rittenhouse , he was already pulling the firearm back out from under his shirt. We can see this image right here. Uh , he points him at himself, out in court today. And he , he, we know that the gun was concealed in the back of his pants, right on his belt. And that's an image from somebody else streaming that Corey Chira VC showed in court today. It says, look, Kyle Rittenhouse is running further down the street and the mob, the protestors , the rioters, whatever you want to call them, they are all now encroaching upon him, sort of crashing in and you can see it clean as day. So the next question, the next thought process is what happens? Why, why is gross? Kreutz have his hand on that. If he's just going on this firearm, if he's all he's doing is just going to go down there and, you know, render medical aid sounds a little bit suspicious. So in our next clip, then we get Corey to your VC who is now talking about the jump kick, man. So this is again, the government's witness who is walking us through play by play the slow sort of assault on Kyle Rittenhouse. We now have jumped kick , man. Who's flying through the air, attacking Kyle and grows . Kreutz is further back in the chain of people who are assaulting through crashing down upon Kyle he's back here, the flying ninja kick man is somewhere ahead of him. So he's going to watch all of that unfold right in front of his eyes. Here he is. Corey Corey cheer. Feesey in court. Today. You were
Speaker 5For Kyle Rittenhouse is safety. Yes, I was. You were concerned cause you saw it and I'm going to refer to him as the only way you referred to him. Junk kick , man . So you see this guy kick him in the face. Dru I did not see jump kick, man. Kick him in the face. You see him attempt to kick him in the face.
Speaker 2From my perspective, I didn't see any specific motion regarding kicking. Um, but it is fair to say that I , I did observe jump kick, man, going over the defendant
Speaker 1Right over the defendant . Of course not anything that was an attack or an assault or anything like that. He was just jumping right over him, just a peaceful little jump and not even a big deal. So there's sort of arguing about semantics here. It's, you know, it's back and forth. It's a , it's a kick in the face. It's a flying ninja kick, but not really. And so they're just battling it out , uh , about the semantics, but the jurors know what happened. You know, anytime a witness does this, it becomes, it's kind of obvious. If a juror sees a witness getting squirrely fighting over falling forward or lunging or whatever, it starts to become a little bit of a, an annoyance for the jurors and they get it. So let's take a look back now at the original statement that gage gross Kreutz gave to the police. And so we're going to play this. This is Corey Chira , VC original day .
Speaker 5We'll be talking about it to the police.
Speaker 1Let me take care of this person in the chat. There it is.
Speaker 5Was I tried telling the guy to stop hitting him with the skateboard, the guy in the ground and turned over, wrapped the weapon and pointed his gun at me and shot me. Right?
Speaker 2That is correct. Yes.
Speaker 5Um, you omitted in the IME , you omitted the fact that you ran up on him and had a Glock pistol in your hand, right? You left that out,
Speaker 2Correct.
Speaker 5Would you think in a case where you are shot that providing the police information that you blessing a firearm at the time would be relevant? I
Speaker 2Think that's fair.
Speaker 5Yes. Okay. But you didn't think it was relevant to tell him that day, correct?
Speaker 1No, he didn't. And so we're going to see what happens here. This is a very interesting little exchange back and forth between these two. So you see what's happening, right? Cory , cheer , feces saying , uh , you left out something pretty important. There was actually a firearm that you had when the entire incident went down, there was a shooting that took place. You were running at somebody with a firearm in your hands. You got shot. Police showed up at the hospital, they had a conversation with you. What's your story? What happened? Gaged , tell them everything that happens, except don't mention there's a firearm in a shooting that went up , went down kind of a pretty important little, a caveat there, little, a slight omission that might've been worth communicating, especially when people got shot multiple people. So they're going to have to recreate that. He doesn't think about it. And so if you're watching this at home, you're watching, Ooh , get him Corey . He is really digging in here and he's going to get him to sort of, you know, oh, this big reveal you lied. Didn't you gage , you omitted this because you had an nefarious purpose for making sure the police didn't know that you had a gun. Cause maybe that might implicate you. So people are watching it and going, yeah, get I'm Corey . And what gage does here is very, very clever and watch what Corey allows him to do. Just let him go on. Gage says, I mean, there's a good reason why that was omitted here. He's here. Here's his explanation. And Corey just lets him go watch,
Speaker 5But you didn't think it was relevant to tell him that day, correct?
Speaker 2It's not that I didn't think it wasn't relevant. Um, after the defendant had shot me, I had just gotten out of surgery when the Kenosha police officers that have arrived and just gone through one of the most traumatic experiences in my life, both emotionally and physically, I'd just gotten out of surgery, had just been sedated. I was on pain meds. So go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. Um, it wouldn't have been a purposeful , uh, omission.
Speaker 5You were asked at that same statement, what you did for work and you refused to answer that, right? That's correct. So you made a conscious decision to not answer that. That is correct. You weren't so drugged that you couldn't answer that question. Great .
Speaker 2I refused because I was worried for my safety.
Speaker 5My point is
Speaker 1Okay, so you see what he did there. He was just about to get blown out. Corey was just about to call him a liar. You didn't disclose any of this to law enforcement. They came to the hospital. They asked you questions and you or dishonest about it. You admitted it. And he was ready for that one to his credit. He says, yeah, well that's because I had my arm blown off after your defendant, Kyle Rittenhouse shut it off illegally. And you go, this was a good point. Yeah. If you have your bicep blown off into smithereens, maybe you're not thinking clearly are you, but Corey says, go ahead, go ahead, keep going. And he let him go. And uh , gauge goes on and says specifically a lot of pain, lot of medication, a lot of drugs. That's the reason why that omission happened. And you say, well, that makes sense. You were drugged up. You were all under all under the weather there. And he just let him go. Go ahead , go ahead. Okay. But that's weird though, because your answers to the other questions seemed like they were kind of on point. You didn't talk about your work. Why not? Because you were afraid you didn't answer these other questions. Why not? You were thinking about it. And it's very interesting that you got the answers right? To all the other questions minus the gun stuff. And Corey doesn't let him get away with it. This was very nice, nicely done. Cross examination today in court.
Speaker 5My point is that you had a process not to answer that true. That is correct. You told this officer specifically what Mr. Rittenhouse was wearing, correct? That is correct. You had a thoughtful process, even though you just got into surgery and were drugged and whatever else was going on, which I understand you were still able to answer all those questions to the best of your ability and they were accurate, right? To the best of my ability. Yes. Yep . Okay. So the fact that you failed to mention that you possessed a firearm when you were shot and that you dropped it, were those things that you forgot because of your medication. I would say not only the medication, but also the traumatic experience that I had just gone through. And you understand, it's the only information that you appear to have forgotten that puts you with a gun directly in front of him, right? That is correct.
Speaker 1Let it linger. Let it stay. Don't ask anything. Let it sit there. No, yes. Just let it sit there. You let that meat ball . Just sit there. Oh , that's good. And Corey cheer. Feesey just let it hang there. Here you go. Here's a big fat stinking meatball for you, buddy. Boy, what do you think about that? It was really well done. Uh , yeah. You know ? Yes, very traumatic. A lot of drugs. Got it. Very convenient though. The only information you left out gave you a gun right in front of Kyle Rittenhouse. Very curious how that happened. Very, very convenient. And then he just let that motto ball hanging out there all night long. And so another very interesting thing happened today. Remember this guy, Jacob Marshall heard that name sort of bandied about , uh , apparently one of gage gross Kreutz , uh, roommates or a former roommate. Somebody that gauged spent some time with, haven't heard from him in this trial yet, but it sounds like we might. And we're going to hear a bit about , uh , gage gross. Groots not having any regrets about anything that happened that night, including anything that he talked about while he was laid up in the hospital because this roommate, Jacob Marshall apparently went over to the hospital and had a conversation with him. It's a gauge brother. You just got your arm shot off. Uh, what do you have to say about that? Gage had some choice words about what he thinks maybe he should have done differently. So let's take a look. We have Corey asking gauge . Do you have any , uh , any regrets about what happened there? Let's check in going to fast forward through a bunch of this stuff.
Speaker 5Is the camp
Speaker 6[inaudible] ?
Speaker 5Yes . So
Speaker 2On this document, it's marked 25 20. I don't know if that's reference to the time of the incident, but the statement was given , uh, it looks like , uh, oh, 900 , uh , I'm sorry. 9:46 AM the following day.
Speaker 5So just so we're clear, it says on this on 8 25, 20 at 11:30 PM, this happened, right? Correct. Okay. So the only thing I want to make sure that you're comfortable saying is there's , um, markings at various points on this paper. Is that right? Yes, sir. Okay. And the statement is two pages. Would you agree with that? Yes. Okay. And can you tell me what those marks are on the left-hand side of that document?
Speaker 1All right . So what we , we ultimately end up getting into is , uh , something that looks exactly like this. So Jacob Marshall is somebody who posted this on Facebook. It looks like, says Ben stockless. Uh , so the kids shot gage as he drew his weapon and gauge retreated with his gun. In his hand, I just talked to gauge gross Kreutz to his only regret was not killing the kid and hesitating to pull the gun before emptying the entire mag into him coward. We get a little bit of a like button over here. So they were setting up this foundation, Cory cheer Feesey , uh, you know, going through all these records, all these documents , uh, that was posted up on Facebook. And , um, we need to dig into that because when what happened here is Jacob Marshall says that I just talked to gauge twenty-five minutes after it was posted. Uh, we , we know that there was some record that Jacob went and visited. You gauge in the hospital when he was there in the hospital. Did he talk to you about this? And did you say that, did you say that you really wanted to exit you don't empty your entire magazine into Rittenhouse ? What do you have to say for yourself? Your gauge,
Speaker 5You, if you had any regrets about that evening and that you had said that you did not correct? Correct. Now I had asked you if you know a person , uh, Jacob Marshall, correct? Yes. And Jacob Marshall may not be today, but he was your roommate. Yes. And you had said that he had visited you in the hospital? Yes. And I'm going to show you what is marked as exhibit 17 . I'm not interested in the stuff on the right right now. I'm just interested in the photograph. Okay. Is that a photograph of you with Mr. Marshall? Yes, it is. Does that appear to be taken , uh, after you had suffered the injury to your arm ? Yes. Okay. And that's at a hospital. Is that fair? Yes. Okay. Now you didn't have any regrets. Did you tell him Mr. Marshall that's your only regret was not killing the kid and hesitating to pull the gun before emptying the entire Meg into him. Now , I never said that you didn't tell that to your roommate. Objection. Asked and answered. Uh , you didn't tell that to Mr. Marshall? No, I did not. Very good. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1Okay. That's it right. You heard that question, that's it? Uh , you didn't tell him , you didn't tell him that you didn't post, that you didn't say anything to him. Jacob Marshall, about wanting to empty your entire magazine in there. Well, if we call Jacob Marshall up to the stand, is he going to confirm that their gauge , you know, he was a roommate of yours, but you know, sometimes roommates end with a bad split. We know how that goes. Sometimes you will all , you know, if you ever live with anybody, it's kind of a nice thing to throw them out of the house because they always leave their dishes in the sink. It's annoying. So we now know that he never said that gage gross. Crude says not going to allow that. You know , I never said anything like that. He looked at the jury and I never had sexual relations with that witness. We're going to see, because Julio Rosa, who was down there at the trial, came out and told us that the judge is looking for Jacob Marshall. The defense noted that Jacob Marshall, who posted on Facebook about gross, Groots wanting to empty the entire magazine Rittenhouse was in the courtroom, but now he's gone. After being served, a subpoena, judge says they need to find out where Marshall is. Defense said Marshall is scheduled to testify on Wednesday. Okay? So that little , uh , statement from gage , I never said that. Guess what? Jacob Marshall is going to be in court in two days. And guess what question is going to be asked of him? Did gage gross Cruz say anything about Kyle Rittenhouse? And if so, what was it? And we're going to see what he has to say about it on Wednesday. Now this is the final real clip here that came out of gage gross crude's testimony today. This is basically the worst. I mean, the , the worst thing that he could have essentially said here, and he's talking about the sequence of events about who sort of did what, when with their guns, did Kyle Rittenhouse shoot him while his hands were up? Like Thomas binger said was the case, oh, your hands were up and he just shot you. Didn't he? Yes he did. Was that the case? Because when you really sort of tease that out, when you pull out the meatballs from the meat sauce and you separate everything out, it looks like a little bit of a different thing happened . Let's take a quick look and see what he had to say about the shooting. And about when Kyle pulled his gun out, here's gage gross crudes today, Rittenhouse trial day six.
Speaker 5When you were standing three to five feet from him with your arms up in the air, he never fired, right? Correct. It wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him with
Speaker 7Gun on your hands down pointed at him and he fired, right? Correct. Whoa, whoa,
Speaker 1Let it sit there. And they do. They just, he just lets it hang there. So let's, let's break that down one quick minute. He goes back and he says specifically, so Rittenhouse didn't actually pull the trigger until you already started to point your gun, his direction. So when your hands were like this Rittenhouse didn't shoot. But when you started to move your gun, then he shot. And that almost matches identically. What gage was telling us about, he came up to the scene, written house , according to his own testimony. Rewrapped it remember that? And then gage said specifically, I knew I had to act. I saw him, rerock it. I decided my life was about to be over. So I pointed the gun towards him. I was actually going to engage with him. Boom. That's when Kyle Rittenhouse shoots, which is about as obvious of self-defense as you can get, he pointed the gun for Kyle Rittenhouse was waiting. Hands were up. No bullet left the gun. Soon as the hand came down fires and shoots him in the arm no less. Right? It doesn't kill him. And that matches Gage's testimony. Almost exactly. He walked up to Kyle. There was a brief moment. Kyle racks . He, he didn't tell us that at that moment he pointed the gun, but he got, we got that out of him with when Corey cheer , FEC dug into him on the cross and folks, it's not just me. Who's making a big deal out of this statement. Take a look at the court clerk. This is what she looked like when she, as soon as she heard that, okay , she looks her attention over to the prosecutor going. Huh? What, what did , what did he just say? Because she knows, she knows it's not going good for them. And then if you look over immediately to the prosecutor's table, she's uh , th they're not looking too hot either. We got James Crouse over there. Has his hand buried his head buried in his hand, like a literal face. Palm bingers over here. Just going , uh , uh, oh no, this is the worst. And so now that you see these two people watch this, watch the court clerk. She literally, she literally stumbles out her shocked up. And then we see and watch the camera, man. It's going to go over to James Crouse , the assistant prosecutor. And as soon as he sees his hands buried in his, his head buried in his hands, the camera then moves away. Let's watch this one more time. Here it is.
Speaker 5When you were standing three to five feet from him with your arms up in the air, he never fired, right? Correct. It wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him with your gun. Now your hands down and pointed at him that he fired, right?
Speaker 1Correct. Watch the reporter court reporter watch. Huh? Huh? Now what? Wait for it. Watch a gulp you're comes a gulp gulp. There it is. Kyle Rittenhouse is doing okay. And then the face Palm here comes the face. Palm, Wait for it.
Speaker 5You had ,
Speaker 1There it is. Oh, no.
Speaker 5But you had mentioned
Speaker 1That you now watch Corey. Now , now look, he grabs his magic wand. Look at this. He grabs his magic wand and he's got his glasses up on his forehead. And he's got this little, just this little grin on his face with his little magic wand. He's a little pointer. Stick walking back over to the podium , uh , for his next line of questioning. He knows what just happened there. Uh, well done really well done. Corey cheer , VC . Amazing, amazing, amazing that he got that out of gage gross. Kreutz woo . He's got the magic one. Got to celebrate it. Got that little smart . Oh yeah. It was pretty good there. Huh? How about that? Cross-exam not too bad. All right . So let's take a look@yourquestionsoverfromwatchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. And I see, we also got some super chats that have come in. I think a couple of those. Yeah. That was from Beth. Good to see you, Beth. That was from Eddie. Valentino says it was my tweet with a screenshot of him aiming at Kyle's head that he responded to. I couldn't believe he tweeted before his testimony in advisable. Wow. No kidding. So Valentino was somebody who gage actually responded to. So it sounds like you control gage gross. Kreutz out there. I mean, he's actually responding to people on Twitter. He was calling people, soy boys and stuff like that. Very, very angry man, very aggressive fella. He just needs to take it easy. Especially in the middle of trial. Don't get on Twitter and start trolling people on there. It's not a good look . That was a good comment. Erica B says, if Kyle is acquitted that makes gross Kreutz de facto liable for assault, will gage be brought up on criminal charges if Kyle is acquitted and the answer is, is no, w w what happens here is prosecutors have some discretion about who to charge and they can't go this entire trial calling gage gross. Kreutz a victim, somebody who was assaulted and almost murdered by Kyle Rittenhouse, and then turn around and then say, ah , just kidding. Now you're a criminal. Now you're somebody who is the assailant. They're not going to do that. They're going to , if they lose their case, they're going to stay by their original. They're just going to chalk it up as a loss, but they're not going to refile charges. Uh , any other direction. We had a couple others before we jumped over to locals. We've got Patrick [inaudible] says, if Kyle is found not guilty in the case gets dismissed. Does that create any necessity open to gauge to criminal charges? It's a very similar question. I think I answered that or only civil lawsuits from Kyle. Yeah. Again, you know, he , he certainly could be sued, but does he have any assets? Probably not. So I'm not sure that that would make any sense for Kyle because you, before you Sue somebody, you want to make sure that you can recover. Uh, Iceman says how damaging is the insinuation that Kyle pulled the trigger while goes gross. Cruz's hands were up and how can the defense dispute it? Well, I think we just discovered that we just saw how Cory cheer VC did it. Yeah. His hands were up, but then he started to shoot to move again. And that's the moment that Kyle Rittenhouse actually pulled the trigger. Gross. Kreutz even admitted it. Seth Kaiser says, if Kyle is found not guilty , um , a defamation case against him for any of the complaining parties, you know, maybe, you know, I'm not really up to speed in that area of law, but I know people like , uh , Nick Sandman, right? They filed some of these claims. I don't know if they want anything. I was talking to Nick ricotta about that yesterday on his show. And he sort of, as a, you know , more closely aligned on the pulse over there about what's happening with some of those types of, you know , defamation claims against some of the bigger media companies. But I don't know. I think certainly he could, you've got a lot of people who've been saying that he did something that I never thought he did. We'll see. I'm sure somebody will take that case for him. That was from Seth Zulus here says, please wrench someone. Anyone will do, probably talking about all those trolls in the chat. That's a Zulu in the house. Shout out. Good to see you Zulu. And let's see, we've got another one from Jay says great job, Robert, with a very nice donation. Thank you, Jay. Certainly appreciate that. Uh, Bianca says couldn't Kyle and the defense have gotten up and yelled. Yes. When the gross witness said he only shot after being approached with a gun couldn't they ? They could have. Yeah, they could have, they're going to save that from outside for outside the courtroom. They're going to go outside and they're going to a high five each other. Certainly tonight, Rittenhouse got a new haircut to , uh, let's see , uh, jumping back over to locals. Let's see here. Get someone says, gauges spinning a web major, says spoiler alert, liar, liar, pants on fire. This guy should be charged with attempted murder. He has 10 million reasons to get Kyle convicted. It's true. What do you do as a lot? Uh , let's see what else we have major says, why doesn't the defense ask why the witness medic did not pursue looking for wounded person before chasing, after Kyle who was not shot? If that was his purpose for being there. It's a good question major. And I think that would have been a very appropriate question to ask. Maybe it did come up. I'm not sure if it did or not. Trial . Pat says the best decision Richards has made during this entire trial is to let the Hitman cross examine everyone. I hope that he delivers closings as well. Yeah. You kind of , you kind of have that. You have somebody who's really good at and you turn them loose on the , uh, on the opponent's monster. One says, this is what I was saying earlier. Gauge isn't a firearms expert. Why is the defense not objecting? When the gun forensic expert was testifying? Why did they ask her if they found an unfired round? If he rewrapped , there should be an unfired bullet. If is their argument that they found every spend. Why not the unspent bullet? Yeah. So that's a good question. They're a monster one. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure if they dug into that today at all. Probably not. If you're saying they didn't, but what monster one is saying is that when Kyle allegedly rerock the gun, the non fired round or the round that has a problem. If there's a jam in the weapon or whatever, you pop that out, you reset it. So it's ready again. Why didn't they find that additional bullet? Um , I don't know . Yeah, that's a good question. Couple more. Let's see. Ghost gunner says it's not rerunning when it's a rifle. That's only for a pistol that has a slide . It's called a charging handle on an AR 15 for a reason. I don't recall Kyle recharging his rifle. However, it's been a while since I've watched the video also then claiming his hands were up is intentionally misleading at best with the way the prosecutor demonstrated. Did we confirm that gauge actually is a felon or not? I've heard mixed things on that. So I don't know if he's actually a felon, but I know he does have a criminal conviction because they talked about that in court today. It was the first question being her says you've got a criminal conviction, right? Yes. How many? One . Okay. So they've agreed on that. They basically stipulated that a , that they're not even going to argue about that. And it came out first in court, whether it's a felony or a misdemeanor , uh, I don't know. All right, let's see. I'm going to , we've got a ton of questions. So if I, if I skip some of the no names, that's, what's happening news. Now Wyoming says, so he says, he's not capable of taking a life. He never wanted it to take a life. He didn't intend for him to pull his gun and kill Rittenhouse. If you don't think you can do it in the moment, why would you carry an illegal gun? Also, does his mindset matter for prosecuting Rittenhouse ? All that matters is if a reasonable person could find that Rittenhouse perceived a threat to his life. I mean, I've been arguing that Rittenhouse is only able to make decisions based on what he knows then and there. So if you try to go back and , and, you know, make an argument that Rosenbaum's medical records are very relevant. Well, Kyle didn't know that. And he couldn't have known that about, you know, any of the , uh, any of the , the different things going on in gage gross Kreutz minds , his EMT training, or any of that. Kyle couldn't have known that the only thing he could know was what he was doing. Standing there, chasing him after a bunch of other people, after he's already communicated, I'm giving up, I'm running to the police. He sees him approach hands up. Then a gun comes out. He's got no choice at that point. It doesn't matter if he wasn't EMT. It doesn't matter if he was mother Teresa , you have to defend yourself. And whether an objective reasonably person reasonable person could do so at that moment is I think something that has been established a former Leo says first time, I'm hearing about Kyle having to clear the action in any reports. Also the first time I heard that too, a couple other comments coming in, just giving them a quick read. Kenny. One V says, even if gross Kreutz is 100% honest here, doesn't negate. The fact that Kyle perceived gross Gruits was trying to kill him. Kyle is still innocent. And a couple more before we jump into our final segment trial, pat says there has been a lot of other talk on other channels of a directed verdict. What say you, Mr. Griller ? And I see that another Superchat from Ryan Henahan came in on that, asking that as well. You know, listen, I had previously said, I think the answer is no, I still think the answer is no. The reason being is, you know, this is sort of a , uh, a formal thing that exists in criminal law. You have a judgment of acquittal emotion for acquittal emotion , motion for a dismissal sort of after the case in chief has been presented by the, by the prosecution. But it almost never gets granted because there's, there's, there's usually at least enough for the jury to make a decision. May not be great, but it's at least enough. And so here, I mean, you know, you know, how, how, how opinionated I am on this. I think that there's not much there, but there's probably still enough for, for the judge to give it to the jury. And I think that as a matter of policy, the judge is going to want to do that, right? The judge is not going to want to take this out of the jury's hands. It may even be just a political thing, because if he does that and we already saw that he doesn't like it when he gets criticized by the media too much, he scolded the media pretty well. And so if he offends, you know, if he does something, that's going to rock the boat too much. He may not like the consequences of that. Uh , maybe he doesn't care, right? This judge is somebody who's obviously been around for a while. It doesn't seem like he is , uh , rattled by much of anything. So, you know, I doubt it. I don't think that there's going to be a directed verdict, but if the jury comes back, you know, you might have a judgment, not withstanding the verdict or , um, if the jury comes back with, you know , guilty, I just don't see it , it, it doesn't happen often. It's more of a formality, but it would be a wild turn of events. If it did no doubt about it. Former Elio says stippling, stippling. I ain't got to show you no stinking, stippling. I think that was from the last , uh , witness today. The dark says I'm totally biased on this whole case, but man, that gauge really came off as totally dishonest with the constant looking at the jurors, every other syllable, it really bugged me. And he kind of did that thing. Right? Sort of like the police do news now says I was watching a few other YouTubers on legal bites chat. And they said they wouldn't be surprised if the judge actually does a directed verdict when the prosecutor is done. I know it's rare. Do you think there's more of a slight chance after everybody's testified? So yes, I w I talked about this with Nick last night. I told him, I said a week ago, 0% chance on a directed verdict today. I don't know, five, maybe, maybe 10, maybe because the evidence has just been so bad, but still that being said, you, you, you, you, you don't want to judge to sort of short circuit the process, unless it's absolutely necessary. And obvious this is getting close to that, but still judges are hesitant to do it. Leafy bugs . As Rob saw you burning the midnight oil Enrique to show you did well, even though you seem to sleep deprived, it's true. I was, man. I appreciate you. And your work ethic. I thought I was better. I thought I was like, yeah, if I'm feeling pretty awake and I got on there and like, I lost my train of thought two , maybe three times on the show, like just blanked out. It doesn't happen to me. It's very strange for me to not be able to just ramble on and on and on and on and on and on it's weird thing. So you might be able to go watch that and see what happens when a Rob dot exe stops working. But we had fun. It was a good time. Dead Mao says a prosecution portrayal of gage gross Cruz . Let's see how things go. So he shared this link over from Watchers. Let's see how things go during cross-examination . That's what the prosecutors look like, holding their crucifix. All right . A couple more before we jump into our last segment, speech says this witness seemed to be the best one for the prosecutor so far. Why didn't the prosecutor lead with this witness in the first place? Probably a little bit to do with timing, probably wanted to keep him sort of, you want to get out a lot of the boring stuff and you want to save kind of a big bang for last, your kind of your , you know, the climax of the trial. And there's no, there's no coincidence that they put him on Monday, today, not on a Friday. So the jury's fresh. They have a nice weekend. They get to come see this. There's there's some of that just, you know , timing strategy there as well. All right , I'm going to pick C row says, Rob , uh, where could the prosecution possibly go after today? We've come a long way. Since four doors more whores . I started watching in 2013 and never seen a witness get impeached like gage did today . Did you see Rittenhouse holding back a smile? I did. I actually saw him , uh, sometimes not even holding it back to some degree just going, oh man, it's crazy. And there were some times where I was watching him. I'm like, does he know what just happened? They're like, that was amazing. Does he even know? Probably not. All right . Let's jump into the last segment and wrap it up before we finish all of the rest of the questions. We'll spend some serious time at the end of the show going through that, but we do have some more to get to. All right , Kyle Rittenhouse trial day six, we're closing out the afternoon witnesses in this segment. We have Heather Williams. You can see this crime lab technician. She's going to come in and talk about firearms and about bullets. We've also got Jason Kroger, somebody who is with the Kenosha police department, he was out on patrol. He was actually a partner to this guy. We heard about a couple of days ago. I think maybe yesterday, pat Moretti , also a KPD a police officer. So we heard from Jason. We're also going to hear from this fellow Kristin Harris, he was a live streamer. He was out on the scene and I think they brought him in just to talk about that militia comment. And they really wanted that militia word to get in here and to be part of the theme that they present in front of the jurors. And so he was out here today. We're also going to hear from a detective Ben and tar and Tara Meehan . And he was the other detective who was working with this guy down here, Martin Howard. So we see that as the state is kind of coming to a close, they put one detective at the very beginning of the case, they put another detective at the very end of the case. They're saving gage gross crews for the end of the case, obviously. And so we're going to just kind of check back in quickly with some of these Kenosha PD and this live streamer here in this segment. And so the first one we're going to start off with is Heather Williams. She was on direct exam. She got out, I came out today, talked about bullets, basically not much here, but just so we can see what , uh, what happened in court today. Here's what she talked about. Heather Williams.
Speaker 8I submitted eight of the, if you hold them , exhibit 71 briefly, you were S you were given eight of those cartridges on top.
Speaker 9Yes. I was eight fired cartridge cases. Just like this one here was submitted for this specific case and analyzed.
Speaker 8And did you find that , um, all eight of those cartridges were fired through the weapon that detective Ventura Damien showed you?
Speaker 9Yes. I was able to determine that the eight fired cartridge cases submitted in this case was fired in the submitted firearm.
Speaker 8And that was by comparing each one to the testifier projectiles that you fired, correct?
Speaker 9Yes.
Speaker 8I have nothing further. Thank you.
Speaker 1No cross examination . That's it comes out. Bullets are what the bullets are. Okay. Anything Corey ? Nothing. All right . So we move on to the next person. Not much there. This is now Jason Krueger . This is a Kenosha police officer police department, who is detailing the unfolding of what happened when Kyle Rittenhouse was actually coming upon the police vehicle. Remember, we already heard from pep, who was telling us that there was somebody else with him, a partner or somebody else who was in the vehicle who may have a pepper sprayed, Rittenhouse , or had done something to try to, you know , bark some verbal verbal commands his direction. Anyways, this is Jason Krueger , Kenosha PD today trial day six.
Speaker 8So what do you do as this , uh , person is approaching you on the street
Speaker 10As a Washington approach? I was giving him verbal commands to keep away from my squad. I did not want anybody coming up to directly to my squad. That could be a potential threat. So I was, we were giving them verbal commands , uh, just to stay back. I had also grabbed my pepper spray out of my vest and was going to use it at the individual, continued to approach the car.
Speaker 8Why did you see him as a threat?
Speaker 10I never met him before. Uh , he had a rifle given the fact situation that hands , uh , there was a lot of circumstances where I just did not want some individual coming up to my squad car and that scene where there's gunshots still going off , um, that I didn't necessarily know.
Speaker 1Okay. So , uh , verbal command stay away from the squad. Doesn't like people coming upon him, pepper spray, considering whether there was a threat or not. Okay. Again, all of these people are coming after the fact didn't see anything about what happened between Kyle Rittenhouse engage or between Huber or between Rosenbalm . And so we're still kind of flushing out what Kyle did after the fact. We've heard some statements. I think even from Thomas binger , hinting that Rittenhouse after he shot everybody, he just got up and ran away. You know, he didn't stop and provide any medical aid or anything like that. So some of this testimony I think, is relevant just to sort of , uh , wrap up the tail end of the event. We heard a lot about what led up to it, but we're, we're sort of piecing together what the police did when Kyle Rittenhouse was actually approaching them. So that's what Jason Kruger said, says that Rittenhouse said something, but something about a shooting that we can't really make out. No verbal indication that Kyle Rittenhouse said, I shot somebody, no verbal indication about Kyle Rittenhouse saying, I didn't shoot anybody. He just said something about it. Here's what the officer said today
Speaker 5To the side. He's coming to your side, right? Yes. Um, do you hear him say anything to you?
Speaker 10The only thing I can remember him saying was something about a shooting , um , that there was no other verbal indication from him coming directly saying it was me. It was just something about a shooting.
Speaker 5Okay. And you had just heard shots fire . Yes. This person's walking to you with his hands up and says something about a shooting, right?
Speaker 10I mean, his exact words were not something about a shooting, but
Speaker 5He says something included in that something is the word shooting. Yes . Yes .
Speaker 1Okay. So says something about a shooting. Again, Rittenhouse is running towards the police. We saw the video of that. You know, this testimony is coming from the government coming from the prosecutors. And we're hearing that Kyle was trying to kind of turn himself in, right. He was trying to go and get help. So I don't, you know, other than completing the , the sequence of events, the testimony is not particularly useful for the government. We also hear from this guy, this guy's name is Kristin Harris. Kristin Harris is a live streamer, works at a place called rundown . And I think he does some B roll footage. And sounds like he was the guy who actually recorded the militia video footage, the Melissa video footage we heard about previously. I think it was back during the ant Huber testimony, whatever that woman's name was. The government was trying to get this video admitted. And the defense objected, because in that video, there was a of colorful language that the person who was actually recording the cell phone video was using the word militia all the time. Oh, here's the militia, here's the militia. Oh, Kyle Rittenhouse, who happens to be with this group of people are a part of the militia. And that's a pejorative word that sort of evoke some emotions from people. And so they wanted to limit that. They said, no, you can't talk about those things. If Kyle is talking in that video, we can play the audio from that, but not anywhere else. And so we had a break, we had a conversation about, you know , what ended up happening there. We don't know what the official ruling on that was, but this guy now shows up in court and they start talking about the militia word. Remember the reason why you couldn't have that original malicious language was because it's hearsay. It's it's language that is outside of a court that is coming in. That's sort of trying to prove some of the facts of the case, not the Kyle Rittenhouse is a militia member. That's not on trial here, but that he was a part of maybe a group that maybe was responsible for militia, like activities, which might include killing people. So it's got a little bit of a overly biased connotation to it. And so they wanted to keep that out. But only because it's hearsay, you can't cross examine that. You can't ask that person on the other side of the camcorder , what they think a militia is or how they define militiamen or any of those things. You can't confront them. There's a confrontation clause issue there. So now they actually bring this guy in Kristen Harris and they start asking him about this specifically about Rosenbalm . Was he, was he around this part at all? Was Rosenbalm in the area at all that you saw here is Kristin Harris
Speaker 3At this moment in the video, the shootings are going to be in roughly 20 minutes or thereabouts after this, roughly. Yes. I see that the bear cats and whatnot are on the road at this point in front of the 59th street car source. Do you know where they traveled after this?
Speaker 11Um, they traveled more forward towards 60th street, I believe. And then they stopped their ,
Speaker 3Did they establish a line keeping the protesters south of 60th at that point with the
Speaker 11M reps or bear cats?
Speaker 3Yes. Okay. So is it fair to say Mr. Harris that for the remainder of your video, as far as you know, no protestors came back to 59th street car source after this,
Speaker 11That I witnessed
Speaker 3Two questions. First of all, do you independently remember at any point in the sequence of events that we've just seen starting with that dumpster fire and all the way forward here, do you remember ever seeing Joseph Rosenbaum ? I do not. After rewatching your video is Mr. Rosen mom in this video at any point during the series that we've just watched? No, not
Speaker 11That I can see.
Speaker 3I have nothing further.
Speaker 1Okay. So this guy gets up and leaves. So he gets up and leaves and he still is needed because the cross-examination has to happen. And so he sits back down. It's kind of a funny moment. He's like, this is my first time here. I had no idea that was going to have to finish, but it's pretty funny. But again, you can see what's happening. It's sort of like this disconnect. They're trying to say, well, you know, you were in this area was Rosenbaum in the area, no Rosenbaum wasn't in the area, but maybe some people who were part of Kyle's crew said that he was a part of the area and that they saw him causing a bunch of ruckus, trying to light things on fire. We heard from Ryan Boucher and many others that they were out there trying to stop Rosenbalm from being an aggressive Looney tune. And this live streamer comes in. He's not anywhere in the area. Didn't see anything about it. Okay. So whether that is consequential or not, I don't think so. But , uh , you , you , you, you certainly can have him come in now. And that video that has to do with militia presumably can go in because the defense gets the opportunity to ask him about that. And they do. So here they say specifically , uh, you know, that language militia, that word you're using, where does that come from? What's your basis for that? Do you just call everybody militia? Or what in Disha are you using in order to justify that claim? Here's what he says.
Speaker 11No, that's all right. First time,
Speaker 5Mr. Harris, on the video, you would describe , um, people as militia, right? Correct. Pointed at the , uh, roof and say there's militia members up there, right? That is correct. That's your opinion. You have no, you didn't talk to any of them about, I ask it to you this way. You had no information that Mr. Rittenhouse was in any type of militia, correct? That is correct. Okay. Now , um,
Speaker 1Okay. No details, no information. Just a general claim. You know , it looks like some guys with guns. He called them militia, but were they, and when you actually dive into this, what was Rittenhouse actually doing when you saw him? What did it look like? He was trying to do there on the streets of Kenosha. Were you aware
Speaker 5That there were , um , homemade gas bombs being thrown?
Speaker 11Uh, one of the people in the roof did say that there was a homemade gas bomb. Uh , basically I don't want to, oh , I'm only I'm in bleach. I don't know how they knew that, but that's what they claimed.
Speaker 5And you had said to , um, Mr. Rittenhouse , uh , I know you're just trying to make peace. Right , right. Okay. So to be fair, he wasn't doing anything aggressively, correct? I agree with that . He wasn't verbally threatening
Speaker 11Anyone. No. He was offering help.
Speaker 5He wasn't using his firearm in a way to scare or intimidate people by pointing it at that . Agreed.
Speaker 7Agreed. Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah. So it wasn't, wasn't doing anything trying to make peace and good. Wasn't using his firearm to be overly aggressive with anybody. And so, again, not a whole lot out of his testimony today, as I mentioned, I think that they had to bring him in here sort of as a foundational witness, they really wanted to get that video footage in back from when aunt Huber was testifying from that guy saying militia, militia, militia, militia, militia. Okay. They bring him in. Now, if the defense doesn't like the word militia, they get to ask him about it. Guess what they did. He explained it turns out he has no idea at all that it's militia. So it's likely that that video that we heard is probably going to go in front of the jury and they are going to get to hear that. Now that there's been a caveat that , that , that, that it's sort of been explained that, you know, it's just his opinion. So I think that's about all that he was brought in for more or less. Don't get much else from him in terms of any observations, you know, you're kind of waiting for that one live streamer or that one witness or something that can go in there and offer us an , a completely alternative set of facts here. And we haven't seen it, right . Something that expands the scope, something like Kyle Rittenhouse was firing off guns, you know , uh , previously earlier in the night , uh , where he was doing something reckless, like he was threatening somebody else previously, something that would reframe the entire ordeal that we've been talking about for a year and a half in a new light. Like if we , if we learned that in a back alley, Kyle Rittenhouse, you know, shot a dog or something like that, right. You'd go, whoa, okay. That changes the entire equation. Because now we know that there's something else that happened here that we didn't know about. And it sort of changes how you think about the whole thing. So you're kind of waiting for something like that. Now that doesn't happen in criminal cases because of discovery. We know what the other side has or should know. And if it's as big, late minute drop, I have the murder weapon, right? There's all sorts of ways that you get that stuff precluded and thrown out for discovery rule violations. So we haven't been expecting anything, but we've at least been expecting a little bit of a , of an adjustment narrative, some witness who was going to come in and tell us something that we didn't know. We have one more witness who came out today. This is detective Ben and tar , um , Antara Meehan, who was the other detective involved in the case? Remember the first guy was, I can't remember his name, detective Martin, Howard, who was , uh , kind of browsing the internet all day, downloading a bunch of the Kyle Rittenhouse videos, kind of the same thing that I was doing back then when we were making videos here and he talked about, you know, all the work he did getting subpoenas, talked a lot about , uh , downloading documents and interviewing people. But his partner is this guy, detective Ben and tar Ambien, who was in court today and talks a little bit about some of the interactions with gage gross crude specifically. Let's take it. Let's listen to what his direct exam sounds like.
Speaker 5Once you kind of get to the meat and potatoes about what had happened with him, he refused to answer your questions. Is that right?
Speaker 12He consulted with his attorney.
Speaker 1And one second, I'm not sure why that didn't play. I had a direct exam.
Speaker 5Now you were, you were asking ,
Speaker 1Trying to get this one video to play. Let's see if I can get it going. All right , try this one.
Speaker 5Once you kind of get to the meat and potatoes about what had happened with him, he refused to answer your questions. Is that right?
Speaker 12The consult with an attorney and yeah, we did not get all the ads. All of our questions answered.
Speaker 5W did you have an opportunity to confront him with the, as you described them , uh, inconsistencies or discrepancies with his original statement, did you have an opportunity to kind of talk to him about those? I attempted to yeah. When you answer those questions? No,
Speaker 12No, no. He would not turn.
Speaker 1Okay. So gross Gruits is talking about, I'm sorry. This detective is talking about gross groups and recall that V very early on in this trial, there was a lot of conversation about this. Mark Richards was having a, an interaction. I think it was with the first detective Martin Howard and said, Hey, you know, when you were investigating this case, you wanted to see what was in Kyle Rittenhouse, his phone didn't you. And it was an iPhone and those are very hard to crack into. And so you said that you needed to send Kyle's phone back over to the FBI so that they could, you know , try to crack it for you. They told you it probably not going to happen. And so we got wind of that, the defense, me and Kyle Rittenhouse, and we decided we'll help you out. We'll give you the code. We'll give you the whole phone. We'll give you access to everything that's on there. Just give us a copy of what you find gives them access permission to go and make a full image, to take every single shred of everything that's on this phone and make an exact one to one copy that you can put on a hard drive and that you can treat as though it's a phone it's different than me sending somebody some pictures, oh, let me send you a picture of, you know, whatever. I took a picture , a picture of it's not like that. It's you get the whole, the whole raw file. So you can see everything that went on there. Kyle Rittenhouse agreed to do that said no problem at all. You want it. You got it. Gage gross . Kreutz though. Didn't. And part of that was because of something called Marsy's law. The government went and they got a search warrant. They had , they filed a probable cause affidavit in front of a judge, a judge reviewed the , the case, decided there's enough here to grant a warrant. Granted it was going to go serve it on gage gross. And his attorney and then got called off, was not allowed to do that. We're going to hear about why before we see that we have , uh, the officer telling us that that day, that whole sequence of days, the 23rd, the 24th, the 25th, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, the most chaotic days of your professional life is what he said. Just like all the other officers have confirmed for us, a war zone through and through here, it is ,
Speaker 5Uh, the night of the 24th and the night of the 25th is the most chaotic days of your professional life is that fair?
Speaker 12I'd include the 23rd but 23rd and 24th.
Speaker 5So those days, 23rd, 24th, 25th, most chaotic days that you've had as a detective or a police officer, even
Speaker 12Correct.
Speaker 1All right. Most chaotic days as a police officer. And then we get one final question. I believe this is the judge who doesn't like sort of the line of questioning where this goes, Cory , cheer , feces asking this detective , uh, when , when you saw the video of Kyle running down the street was gage gross groups and, and , and sort of the rest of the mob there were they chasing Rittenhouse . Can you, can you tell us sort of your interpretation of that? What do you think that looked like detective here is Corey . Well, I don't know why my videos aren't playing. Let me try one other thing. Give me one second. Let's see if I can play it one other way because the judge kind of sculpts him a little bit.
Speaker 5Mr. Gross crates, based on your observations of him running after Mr. Rittenhouse
Speaker 13Characterizing the video, we've all seen the jury can draw their own conclusions. Mr. Gross has already testified on this point.
Speaker 4Overall ,
Speaker 12Could you repeat what you asked please?
Speaker 5Based on your training and experience as a police officer, watching the videos, did it appear to you that Mr. Gross crates behind him?
Speaker 12Behind his path?
Speaker 4Okay. What comment is witness or with facial reaction? Very good. Thank you.
Speaker 1Okay. So the detective sort of refuses to answer the question says something like, ah , you know, I'm not comfortable saying that. Don't know what it , you know, don't know how to, how to address that directly. And Cory makes a little bit of a face goes, okay. All right . You can't say that you can't even , uh, acknowledge that he was being chased. The judge didn't like that judge said, Hey, Hey, Hey there, Corey, take it easy on those facial expressions. Okay. We can all see that. So that was the end of the day. A lot of closeouts, their closing testimony, a lot of big witnesses today. Of course, gage gross. Kreutz being the biggest. Talked about him in the first segment today. Let's see what you have to say about this over from our friends@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com. See what some of the questions look like. We have a lot of them. We've got LA medics as Kyle's self-defense claim with gross crudes on the ground, having beaten and chase gross crude self-defense claim heard that Kyle shot someone and chased after him said nothing to Kyle, that he was friendly. He had a firearm was advancing on Kyle weighing the merits. Kyle wins that's from LA medics , sort of balancing those out good analysis there . Former Elio says and all of the police interviews and the filing of the civil cases. He never mentioned that he was armed with a handgun. He's got no credibility. That's from a former Leo in the house. Leafy bug says they rammed into each other in the middle of bums Ville , LOL where'd that come from where I come from, bum means you're but so your hypothetical scenario has a very different connotation. Also says, sorry, I'm very immature. It's okay. Well, you know, bums Ville . That's what they say. Don't they say that don't people say that news now says we have seen the co-counsel take a lot more active role in questions. He started out only making arguments. Do you think the defense attorneys receive word that the primary attorney was coming off a horrible in his demeanor and tone? I know ego might not allow an attorney to accept that. LOL. I don't think so. You know, I think that what you're seeing is , is sort of natural. I think Corey is a little bit more of a cross examiner, just sort of naturally than , um, than mark. And so you , you know, you, you switch things up based on , um, on your skills. That's all DDL SPI says not going to lie other than being 300,000 miles away from the microphone and this being unable to hear him half the time. I'm very impressed with cheer FEC . In this case, he knows the right things to hit. It's made things since last Wednesday, feel like a real life TV, legal shell . It's Trudy Del speed . That's right. He is somebody who walks around the courtroom all the time. And it is hard to pick up the audio, definitely, which is frustrating for us viewers out here. But yes, he's doing a good job. And it has been, this has been one of those trials where it's like, man, I cannot believe some of these lines of questioning. You know, the, the, the re racking comment from gage . I was not expecting that. I was listening to that going, whoa, where'd that come from pretty interesting. Okay. A couple of other ones here, news now says any guests on if Rittenhouse testifies, I know in defense opening, he inferred that he is, but watching legal bites and others, they say it'd be legal malpractice to call them . At this point only allow the prosecution to grab victory from the throws of defeat. I agree with you news. Now, I think that it's not a good call. It's typically not a good call to have a defendant testify in general, right? You almost, almost never benefit from having a defendant testify. But in this case, I don't think there's any reason to at all. Thunder seven says is gross. Kreutz being charged with breaking curfew, carrying a firearm or recklessly shooting his gun. The police got it all wrong. The Antifa thugs should have been charged. I never knew he was aiming for a $10 million payout while the goal of the criminal play in the victim to get a big payday. I think this country has had it with these violent Antifa losers. That's from thunder seven. Yeah. Good to see you. Thunder. David Ord orf says if I were Kyle right now, I would be relieved that gross Groots lived . His testimony has been very, very beneficial to Kyle's defense. It's from David. I agree with you on that. It was a , a good day for the Rittenhouse team. Three girls. He says I came in late, had to rewind the feet a little bit to see the direct exam. This guy still, I can't sit still to save his life. He's not even keeping proper eye contact. Body language is screaming shady. If you look at the cops, they answered straight towards the jury. They were face on most likely making eye contact gauges everywhere in his chair. Like he can't sit still just on his body language alone. I don't know how many juror puts any stock into what he's saying. I was able to fast forward. Now I'm at the part where there is a lawsuit. Not sure anybody, especially the jurors are going to leave anything. This guy says yet, another shooting in the foot for the prosecution. That's from three girls , various dude observation. There were three girls and glad you made it over here. SPI says I could be wrong, but there was some very interesting imagery in this witness testimony with one of the pictures being the arm exploding, actively, it was very interesting and gruesome to see. I almost felt bad for gross Groots to have to relive those images on the stand. Yeah. I mean, totally. You know, he's probably still in a ton of pain. It's a life-changing injury. It's a tragedy of life for everybody involved. And so, you know, I gotta keep that in mind. Okay. Let's jump over to YouTube and see what we've got coming in over here. Jay says, great job, Robert. Thank you, Jay. Bianca says, I think we got that one. Couldn't Kyle and the defense have gotten up and yelled. Yes. Yes. We saw that one. Have you heard about the guy? Who's got people with cameras in Kenosha, clearly threatening jury intimidation on Twitter. That's from a lay . And we , I did see that. I heard that that might have been George Floyd's cousin or something like that. I talked about it with ricotta yesterday and I saw another image of this that apparently he posted another one today. Apparently the story goes there's there's George Floyd's cousin, or somebody on the internet who is saying that they have people in the courtroom in Kenosha taking pictures of the jurors, seated next to Kyle Rittenhouse. And that if they don't convict, there's going to be repercussions for them , which is illegal. That's called jury tampering. It's called interference with judicial proceedings, all sorts of major problems as a result of those threats. But we'll see if anybody does anything about it. Iceman says question for later, detective says drone footage shows Kyle pointing a gun at Rosenbaum before the chase. How impactful if proven. So it's only going to be impactful as to the extent that it matters to the jurors. I mean, ultimately, you know, and it depends on what we're talking about in terms of the pointing. As I mentioned earlier, if this whole narrative changes, because Kyle Rittenhouse, we have footage of him going to Rosenbalm . If you don't do what I say, I'm going to execute, you know , Baldy , something like that, right? That would be a total game changer. But if it's incidental, if Kyle's running down the road to help provide medical treatment to somebody, and you know, the gun is sort of pointed at Rosenbaum incidentally for a split second, you know, that's not going to be enough. That's going to be incidental and it's not going to be considered anything overly consequential. TC says when detective [inaudible] makes this statement about the prosecution, suggesting him not request a cell phone under Mary's law, it seemed very sus right? Totally, absolutely. 100% was. And it's a situation where the defense is. I'm sorry. The prosecution is trying to kind of paper over this fact that there were double standards. Kyle Rittenhouse was thoroughly investigated by law enforcement. They were going to do a parallel symmetrical investigation of gage, gross crudes , but his attorney engaged, they cut it all off. I mean, they, they literally precluded further conversations from happening. And so when you're able to get that out in front of the jury, it sort of crumbles that facade, that gage was putting out there that he's this heroic, you know , uh, uh, EMT, somebody who's out there trying to help a lot of people now, maybe not really because you're kind of dishonest about a bunch of stuff. Good question. Uh, let's see what else here. Uh, former Leo says that wasn't a meatball . That was an S sandwich. Sharon says, I love that part where gross Kreutz gets the meatball extra spicy one too. He did got a spicy meatball. There also says what I want to know is how this Turkey ever came to trial, prosecutorial misconduct. She says and gross cruise with his $10 million civil suit that doesn't get laughed out of town. Well, I don't know. Well, you know, we'll see, maybe he'll he'll , uh, he'll hit the lottery. Leafy bug says all of Gage's medical training and his ethics prompted his sincere desire to empty the entire magazine into Kyle, obviously. Well , we're going to hear from Mr. Marshall soon. We'll see what he has to say about it. Uh, John Halligan says, Ooh , this page shows all of the Marshall Facebook posts referencing the hospital visit. Let's take a look at this one, John. See what we've got here? Yeah. There's some violent or there's some, some imagery there. You gotta be careful on Facebook. You know, they , uh, I'm sorry, on a , on YouTube. Oh yeah. There's some juicy stuff over there. It's look at this. It says Jacob Marshall says should have killed him right then and there that's his cell phone. He was on live recording. Nice try though. Oh, well we're going to get Jacob Marshall and court here pretty soon. I think. So. We'll see how that testimony goes for the prosecution. Good to see you, John. Few more trial. Pat says a lot of the meatballs and meat sauce tonight. Rob, do you miss, are you looking forward to dinner? Well, I do. You know, I just happen to like meatballs and today was a pretty big spicy one delivered pili while he says, Hey Rob, how's your weekend. What do you think are the chances of a directed verdict? Incoming judge must believe there's hardly a case to answer now. Well, we can was good. It was , uh , quite busy was doing , uh, we , we had a three hour locals meetup on Saturday. Then we did about two and a half hours with Nick as I was falling asleep on camera with him yesterday. And so it was a lot of fun, a lot of camera time, but that's what it's all about. Sharon says if there's any justice, which I doubt gross Gruits can kiss his 10 million goodbye. We'll see if that happens. Nadave says these courts really got to update their equipment and invest in some wireless mikes, especially for cheer. FEC. Yeah. He's walking all over the place. Can you stay still for two seconds? We're trying to do a show here, Corey . Hello. You're making it difficult for us to enjoy. Enjoy the trial. Former Leo says, did you see the look of the face on the court? Stenographer priceless? Yeah, I don't think she was a clerk. She was a snugger. She was typing away. She goes, huh? What just happened? Is this whole trial thrown out now? Okay. Well I guess I'll just keep typing away. All right . Dead mouse says, do you think the defense attorney can be charged with the attempted murder of gross? Kreutz it's pretty close. I mean, it's , it's not far off from their trial. Pat also says when gage said that Kyle didn't fire until he pointed the gun at him, Kyle looked like one of two things. One, he wanted to jump out of a seat with joy or, or wanting to cry because he knew what that meant. Yeah. It was a big moment for him. No doubt about that. Cuomo's revenge is here, says 8, 5 20 should only be referred to as the written house self-defense incident or alternatively, the Rosenbalm aggression 8 25 is the national self-defense day. And we'll see what happens here. Hopefully, hopefully , uh , it's something to celebrate. We have another one from news now says I still don't understand how the defense didn't argue against a detective describing what the high detailed drone footage shows without showing it. Yeah. You know , and news, now it is, it is confusing. I think what we're seeing with a lot of this stuff is only like half the story. I think a lot of what is coming through on the internet is only part of the part of it. You know, the rest of this stuff is conversations that are taking place up at the bench or behind chambers. So, you know, we're, it's hard to really gauge what's going on, which is why it feels like that. So you're not alone. In other words, Nick and I were talking a lot about that last night. It's hard to make heads or tails about what the motion , what certain motions eliminate are or what the different arguments that are going to be allowed are because there's no formal rulings. The judge has kind of allows things to come in and then deals with them on the fly. Okay. A couple of other questions we've got news now says, why didn't the attorney ask a question? Like you explained that you rack a bullet to clear a weapon. Have you ever heard of people racking a gun as a warning? It's another good question from news now possible possible. It could have been a good one, three girls. He says, good Lord. Where in the world did these prosecutors think that this guy was going to be a good witness? Those smoking guns continued to be shot at the feet of the prosecutors. They can't even dance fast enough right now, this guy totally exonerates Kyle Rittenhouse. That's from three girlies . We've got feisty lady. He says not sure if you saw the judge having attorneys meeting at the bench after the jury dismissed for the day, all attorneys at the bench, it looks like a secret witness came into the courtroom. Then all attorneys, the witness and the judge went into the chambers. It must've been some big pow-wow with the judge. Also ex roommate of gage is going to testify on Wednesday. Wonder if he's aware of a $10 million lawsuit and we'll want a few pesos from gage for his testimony about the Facebook posts is video quality. Good enough after enhancement to tell if Kyle actually rewrapped his weapon or not, you know, it's a good question. I don't, I don't know. So I would think so, but you'd have to have a good, good angle. You know, if you had the right footage, I think you could, you could tell, but that's the first time that I ever heard of it. I didn't, I didn't see any hints of that. Uh, prior to today, AOC says, well, well, well Robert ruler reading the super chats before the locals chats, who cares about the peasants at locals when you can shower in the Superchat money. I wonder who that is. I think I have an idea of who , who may be submitting that here today, but it's true. Major says if he was a fellow, it matters that his concealed license is expired because he's now a prohibited person for owning a firearm. Yeah . He could have been charged with another crime. PO PO prohibited. Possessor is the name of that 5 0 3 unlimited says, if anyone wants a few examples of cops lying to not implicate their failures, may I present these Elio's man? The smirk on that one detective really got under my skin when he was playing word games. I'm glad he got the business from 5 0 3 unlimited talking about that last detective there this afternoon. So Vikings here says what happens in Marshall doesn't appear on Wednesday or is coached before then. Well, he's, he's got his, his Facebook posts that can be used to sort of, you know, impeach him over. You posted this. Why ? Why did you say he said that if he didn't say that, you know, that's going to be a very uncomfortable line of questioning for him. If he doesn't appear well, then he's probably, you know, they could decide, the judge can decide what to do for him. Issue a warrant for his arrest or hold them in contempt as a couple of different , uh, ramifications there. But he'll show trial. Potts says, I agree with you about the directed verdict issue. The judge doesn't like anyone questioning his decisions. He smacked down the large prosecutor or commenting on his decision. He's made comments about the media and don't forget him commenting on one of his decisions at the Supreme court shot down and later reverse and agreed with him. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why, you know, I think he's just going to let the jury habits. Pelosi's fun . Bangs says no chances . It's a directed verdict going to go to the jury. Judge already said he wants public confidence in the trial, which is right. It's a good 0.503 says I watched all of this on [inaudible] stream from the last couple of days has been crazy. That being said, I'd like a motion to try defendant's lawyers for murder because they killed gait . He had , he had a tough day, pili Wally . He says, Hey Rob , uh, why did they not ask the police? If someone attacking them like Rittenhouse was being attacked, whether or not they would have fired their weapon. Okay. You know, for a fact that they would have, as soon as the threat was clear, good to see you there appili wallet . And a good question. Good comment. As well, trial pots as forgive me. If you address this already, did you see the detective smirk when he answered questions? The way binger wanted him to? I think it was Nick or Katie that said, if you want to see a cop lie, watch a criminal trial. Woo . That's a spicy meatball right there from Nick news. Now says question. I expected the defense to ask that cop who pepper sprayed, Rittenhouse, based on your training and experience as an officer, how many suspects who want to get away from the police go towards the police car with their hands in the air prosecutor with the detective seems to make a big deal about Kyle leaving. Yeah, that would have been another good question news. Now you've got some good questions. Maybe you should be somebody who cross-examined . People like a lawyer trial pot says the only thing the prosecution has proven is that Kyle shot those three people. Duh, we all knew that. I know we've all talked about it. It's not news. But uh , for some reason they still look to be fair to them. They have to go through the motions, right? They have to prove the elements of the case. So a lot of this is tedious because that's just how criminal law can be go Navy. He says, I don't know why this is still going on. If I were on the prosecution team, I dropped the charges, try to get a job at a car wash or something that would be, you know, that's , that's an approach here. Maybe they could do a better job. Cleaning cars. Greg Moran says not sure what the law is here, but shouldn't grow Scrooge , be charged with advancing Kyle and pointing a loaded gun with an intention to shoot and kill Kyle. He , he could have. So if, if the prosecution had decided to go that way, they could have gone that way, but they didn't. Right. And so they're not going to go that way. Criminal law oftentimes is going to be an either or situation. They're going to look at a situation and they're going to say, Rittenhouse is more criminally culpable than the other guy or the other guys . Uh , and so in this case, he gets the charges. They leave the others alone and that's just how it goes sometimes. Right? Sometimes think about it like in a domestic violence case, sometimes you have a domestic violence case and it's a man and a woman or whatever. And there's an altercation that occurs. Both people are ultimately sort of responsible for it or contributory to the ultimate argument, but they don't charge both people with crimes. They pick one charge. One. The other person is a victim. It's just how it goes. Even though they both may have hit each other, they both may have broke something or throw threw things around. They're still only going to charge one of the two in most situations when they do charge, both of them, both of them have a very good defense because all they have to do is remain silent and don't tell on each other. And the prosecution has no witnesses in most cases and they have no choice, but to dismiss. So just because two people technically broke the law doesn't mean that prosecutors are going to necessarily prosecute both of them. They have to make a choice on the back of practicalities. And that often leads them to only being able to charge one side of the equation major says in regards to the question about re racking , maybe since Kyle is not a trained soldier, he didn't fully pull the charging handle instead just cocked the hammer. So there wouldn't be extra brass spent or unfired as a trained soldier is grilled into us not to do this, but fully pull the handle. Well that's for a major in the house that is , um, some good detail on the firearms. I appreciate that news now says in all the trials I've watched since OJ, the detective questioning includes my new favorite line of questioning I've ever seen. When the defense is asking the detective, if in his training and experience, he felt gage was chasing Kyle that whole line of questioning and that with getting scolded by the judge for his facial expressions, because it was stupid. The cop wouldn't agree with him, even in all the face of the evidence. Yeah, it was, it looks petty, right? The jurors see that too. They go, he was chasing him. Can you just say he was chasing him, but they want to get squirrely on those things because people just dig their heels in. Okay. Couple more sniper says the best thing that ever happened in this case was the fact that Rittenhouse did not get taken into custody that night got to go home because who knows if he would have been smart enough to lawyer up that night without having diarrhea mouth with the cost because of the adrenaline and the fact that he had just murked two people. I know firsthand the aftereffects of a young man killing somebody for the first time blessing in disguise. He didn't turn himself in that night. Might have been a disaster. Could have been. Yeah, no doubt about that. It was, you know, not the best, I'm not the best defense when he went over to Illinois because he sat in custody for two months. I thought that was unnecessary. But you know, he had, he did. He had, I think some questionable legal counsel at that time monster one says, did you see the look on Kyle's face? When the defense got to gauge to admit that he wasn't shot until he pointed the gun at Kyle? Honestly, it looked like he was going to cry. It looked like that was the moment he realized he wasn't right. It may have been that moment. So a good day for him, tree Mendez says, this is kind of funny that the jury is supposed to believe that gross Groots wasn't chasing Kyle, but that Kyle was chasing Rosenbalm based on some infrared footage from the FBI. It's going to be a tough sell. Okay. We've seen about 20 different angles of gross. Kreutz chasing Kyle. He wouldn't use that word. Same thing with Rosenbalm. So I'm not sure what , what some FBI drone footage is going to show , uh , Bama Likud is here. Sapa . Look it over the weekend on our monthly locals meetup, a lot of fun had a hysterical revelation that Bama lik it was maybe being pronounced incorrectly, but we'll save that for another day. She says the ends justifies its means you can bring a gun on a chaotic environment and someone got shot and died. I really don't know where I stand on this, but to be honest, that 17 year old kids should not be out there because of a situation might happen and can be prevented. Now look at what he's facing. So young to me in this mess, my heart goes to the families involved, hold onto your faith and stay strong, a terrible situation. Bama . Look it , Nope, no doubt about it. Right? Awful city of Kenosha being burnt to the ground, rioters, protestors, whatever you want to call them. You've got a lot of people trying to protect themselves, protect their businesses, their livelihood. It was very chaotic. And it's very sad that that our current , uh, you know , government and political environment kind of fosters all of this and really encourages it, you know, wants both sides , uh, to kill each other to some degree , uh , former Elio says stippling, you didn't cover it. I didn't cover it. You're right. We kind of skipped over the technical stuff there. Eat on test says great job. This is what I came here for. I'm riveted, even when listening in the car. Well thank you. Aidan tests love that hope you're doing well out there. My friend and we had an , our final one from former Leo says if the grand jury knew that gage was armed, maybe no indictment. That could be true. Yeah. It could be true if they would have had the facts there. Uh , let's see, we had another one from C Reed says wondering about the Drome timestamp plus for the 26, huh? Yeah. So the drone, I'm not sure what you're meaning what you're getting out there. See , read plus for the 26 . Cause this happened on the 25th. So I'm not sure what you're referencing, but maybe we'll see more of that , uh , tomorrow fighter for the street with a nice donation. Thank you, fighter for the street. And I think that was it. My friends, all the questions that came in today, this was written house trial day six, a lot of amazing thoughts and an input there want to welcome some new people to our community. Big shout outs to the next unicorn. Welcome to our community. Official glitch also joined up and watching the watchers.locals.com. We've got Dow Biff in the house. Welcome to duboeuf. We've got custodies. Pete knew Robert Emery in the house, along with chip Vaughn shoulder, all joined us over@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com along with para law , 4 0 6 crime junkie JECA we've got future freedom. Now love that Briggs 57. We've got gecko , man. We've got PWS MKZ . We have CPO forever and de Del SPI in the house. G nonsense , frat bod flee Jay bad guy, Sisi very clever name , my magician C rose and hyperspectral Erin Caroline all joined our community here@watchingthewatchersdotlocals.com where a lot of these questions come from where there are chats that take place. We're doing a live streams. Now exclusively over there a few days a week, we have , uh , copies of the slides that we go through every day are available over there . Free PDF version of my book is available for download beginning to winning, how to fight your case and succeed in the criminal justice system. We have monthly locals meetups that we just had this past Saturday. It was on November six . We have another one that we'll get organized and up in December. And so we want you to be a part of our community because we have a lot of fun and we talk a lot about a lot of good stuff. And so come check us out, watching the watchers.locals.com and that my friends is it for me for the day. I want to thank you so much for joining in on the Kyle Rittenhouse recap. We're going to do it all again tomorrow because we've got a couple of days of trial left. Not sure if we're going to be wrapping up this week. They said so, so the government's going to be resting soon enough and we're going to hear the defense. And so we want you to be a part of the show when we do that. So join us yet again here tomorrow. It's due to the time change. It's still 4:00 PM Arizona time, which is now mountain time. So it's 3:00 PM. Pacific 4:00 PM, mountain 6:00 PM. Central 7:00 PM on the east coast. And for that, wait , that's not right. It's 4:00 PM. Arizona, 5:00 PM central 6:00 PM on the east. Okay. Let's try that one more time. 3:00 PM. Pacific 4:00 PM. Mountain 5:00 PM. Central 6:00 PM on the east coast. And for that one, Florida man. And we're going to do it all again here tomorrow. At those times, I hope you can come and join us everybody until then have a tremendous evening sleep very well. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. Bye bye . My friends.